In Conclusion...
Aug. 30th, 2008 12:30 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
altarflameI had a huuuuuuuuuuuuge headache earlier, partially from the rigors of trying to wrap my head around what I do or do not think is "right" for mothers to do while they're mothers.
The thing is, I don't generally go around thinking mothers are bad. I generally go around really, REALLY happy whenever I see parents with loved and well-adjusted kids. I have a heavy lot of exposure to moms who ditch their kids for years at a time to keep partying while the grandparents do the legwork, stepping back in only for the occassional drunken visit that ends with a call to the cops. No, really. More than one of these chicks between Grant and I's families, with 9 kids between the two of them. I myself grew up in some questionable circumstances. When I see a young single mom trying to find good childcare for while she's working and playing with the baby when she's off, I feel good about that.
But, of course, like everybody, I still have my ideas about what is "ideal", and they play heavily into the choices I make in my own life, for my own kids, with my own set of resources.
So when someone is in the public eye and requesting my vote, I can't help but analyze them in a way I wouldn't the average joe on the street. And in this case, the Sarah Palin case, it seemed really knee-jerk reaction obvious to me that someone with relative financial wealth, a 4 month old Downs baby AND four other kids probably shouldn't be spending 16 hours a day campaigning for a 16 hour a day job.
There are SO many ways to look at this, though. Maybe she sees a spot in the White House as an amazing opportunity to further awareness, research and funding - as well as plain old acceptance - of Down Syndrome, thusly having the potential to HUGELY improve her new son's life.
Maybe she's generally concerned about the state of the nation and/or world to such a degree that she feels she has to step up and do whatever has to be done to ensure her kids' long term safety and security.
Whatever the case, I've now seen two different pictures of her - one at her desk signing things and one on some steps speaking to a crowd - with the kid in a sling. I've learned that when she went back to work 3 days after giving birth, it was with the baby and his dad in tow. She's still nursing, which is commendable for anyone with a Downs baby as they have some major nursing hurdles that often make it impossible. There's also a shot of her holding him in a grocery store talking to some people.
Anyway, 3 pictures don't mean anything, but neither does my snap judgement or what I read on Yahoo! News that was 11 minutes old or a YouTube video someone edited down and presented in a certain context...I don't think anyone can know what her motives are, what kind of mother she is, any of it. I like it that she seems to really love and accept her kid, special needs and all. I like it that she went ahead and had him, knowing the difficulties that lay ahead. I like it that she's obviously making some big inconvenient efforts to keep him as close as possible while she works at the high powered job. I like it that she has 5 kids at all, because DAMN am I tired of the "Are they all yours?!" "Wow, how many - two, three, four - FIVE?!" "How do you do it - you must have your hands full!!" bs I have to hear from everyone I see in the grocery store.
And the great irony is that for all this thought I've put into her suitability for the role given her personal life - I still am up in the air about her politics! And, it hardly matters, because I still don't like McCain, who is the one actually running!
So, before I redirect you all back to the 24 hour old picture post you SHOULD be paying attention to ;) I would just like to add another topic for discussion that might make us all want to tear our hair out. Well, maybe it will make some of you want to post to stupid_free, who can know :p
Topic:
How do you, or how do you assume I, or how do you plan to (you pick) address children (of one's own) about controversial or subjective matters?
For instance, your kid overhears CNN and asks, "What is 'abortion'?" Or your Jewish child wants to know why other people wear cross necklaces. Or whatever.
I'm asking because I've realized a LOT of people assume that a homeschooling, Christian mother would be "brainwashing" their children in an effort to shield them from alternate ways of thinking and manipulate the odds that their kid will grow up agreeing with their own viewpoint.
Jumping right in to answer, when my kids asked what abortion is I told them in brief, generalized terms what it was, and then went on to say how I feel about it and how other people feel about it. To wit:
Ananda: What is abortion?
Me: *sigh* It's a medical procedure where a pregnant woman goes into the doctor and gets everything taken out of her uterus, so she isn't pregnant anymore.
Aaron: You mean the baby?
Me: The baby, or fetus, or whatever, and all the other stuff in there - the amniotic fluid and some blood clots and whatever.
Ananda: What do they do with it then?
Me: They throw it away.
Both: Screams of outrage, freaking out.
Me: I think it's wrong. I think it's killing the baby -
Ananda: BECAUSE IT IS!!!
Me: But a lot of other people don't think so, they think the baby isn't really alive until it's born, and so a woman should have the right to choose what happens to her own body and say whether she wants to have a baby or not.
Aaron: How can the baby not be alive when it's kicking?
Me: Well usually it's before there's kicking. Not always. But yeah, there is still a heartbeat and all that. I mean, I believe it is alive from the time it first exists, I believe God gives that new life a soul as soon as the cells come together -
Ananda: So do I.
Me: But not everyone even believes in God, and plenty of people think it's just a group of cells. It doesn't look like a baby yet.
Aaron: But it WOULD be a baby!
Me: I feel the same way, Bud. This is huge all over the country right now because everyone has a different opinion about it and they all feel really, really strongly. It's really hard to be 16 and pregnant, or pregnant with a baby you don't think you can afford to feed, or just pregnant when you weren't ready to have a baby, so some people feel like they can't deal with it. I don't think that is the baby's fault - I don't think it's right to punish a baby for what's going on in the woman's life. But it's a LOT, to be pregnant and have a baby. You saw me in and out of the hospital, it's a big deal that really changes you and puts a lot of risk on you.
Aaron: I can't believe that even happens, like what kind of doctor would do that? (looking near tears) I mean why can't they do what (person he cares about who was adopted who I won't name)'s mom did so the baby can still get a good family?
etc.
This is how we go about just about every conversation involving anything subjective. I wonder often if it would seem wrong to other Christian parents who think I should be telling my kids it's murder and a sin plain and simple, or if it would piss of the pro-choicers who think I'm conveying my biases loud and clear through my own beliefs, expressions, tone, history, etc etc. Probably both, I have a knack for that ;) But you know, we were at my friend Kristin's house the other day, and she is an Agnostic with pagan leanings. Her son was saying, "God!" about something and Aaron was like, "You shouldn't say that, it's bad to say the Lord's name in vain, it's like a curse word but way worse". The friend got mad and told me and Kristin "Aaron was yelling at him" (which he wasn't, but I think he just used it to mean "correcting me" or "scolding" or whatever). And I was like, "We believe in God and that it is wrong to say, so that's how Aaron feels and what he's used to. But you can just tell him, you don't believe in God, and so you don't think there's anything wrong with it. Or you can choose to not say it around him if you want to respect his beliefs. Or you can just let it go and he'll forget about it in a minute because that's how he is."
Later on, Aaron brought it up at home, saying he wanted to tell Darian that because he knows Darian doesn't believe in God and he thought it would be important to teach him about it so he can choose for himself. I told him that's his perogative, and I think it's kind of cool, but lots of other people are going to think it's really annoying and so if he's going to take that upon himself he needs to be ready for some people to get mad at him or not want to talk to him as much. Also, that it's Darian's house and so if it really makes Darian uncomfortable, he needs to just drop it.
I am always kind of shocked when I overhear some of the Catholic or Mormon parents I know saying things in these very absolute and rigid terms to children who've never heard of them before. Like, "evolution is wrong and liars believe it, but God is going to punish them". That sort of thing seriously makes me kind of shake my head and drop my jaw and blink a bunch of times. I regularly hang out with a VASTLY arrayed bunch of people...these last couple of weeks I hung out with Mormon homeschoolers, Catholic homeschoolers, the agnostic/Pagan family I mentioned, people at the non-denominational protestant church where the kids go to AWANA, our lesbian nanny, our VERY old fashioned and supersticious granite guy, my Baptist plumber neighbor, and our old high school friend Angel who is a major partying, apathetic, video game playing, womanizing somebody that seems to think it's still high school. And Shaun - who is probably the weirdest guy to anyone reading this, he's a film editor and a lapsed cradle catholic and a philosophy spouting investor...who thought we should get a houseboat to the point that he got us a personalized life ring for our deck - but I digress.
The point is it really takes me aback how everyone spouts their stuff like facts, in hushed tones of conspiracy that say it's assumed I obviously agree with them. And it makes me wonder how each of these groups sees me, and if it even matters, and by the way, how in the world were some people SURPRISED that I think mothers should stay home if they can, in that last post? Did anyone really think otherwise before I said it (this time)?
Anyway, no point. Go look at the pictures if you haven't -
From the 27th - http://altarflame.livejournal.com/327413.html
From the 29th - http://altarflame.livejournal.com/327803.html
The thing is, I don't generally go around thinking mothers are bad. I generally go around really, REALLY happy whenever I see parents with loved and well-adjusted kids. I have a heavy lot of exposure to moms who ditch their kids for years at a time to keep partying while the grandparents do the legwork, stepping back in only for the occassional drunken visit that ends with a call to the cops. No, really. More than one of these chicks between Grant and I's families, with 9 kids between the two of them. I myself grew up in some questionable circumstances. When I see a young single mom trying to find good childcare for while she's working and playing with the baby when she's off, I feel good about that.
But, of course, like everybody, I still have my ideas about what is "ideal", and they play heavily into the choices I make in my own life, for my own kids, with my own set of resources.
So when someone is in the public eye and requesting my vote, I can't help but analyze them in a way I wouldn't the average joe on the street. And in this case, the Sarah Palin case, it seemed really knee-jerk reaction obvious to me that someone with relative financial wealth, a 4 month old Downs baby AND four other kids probably shouldn't be spending 16 hours a day campaigning for a 16 hour a day job.
There are SO many ways to look at this, though. Maybe she sees a spot in the White House as an amazing opportunity to further awareness, research and funding - as well as plain old acceptance - of Down Syndrome, thusly having the potential to HUGELY improve her new son's life.
Maybe she's generally concerned about the state of the nation and/or world to such a degree that she feels she has to step up and do whatever has to be done to ensure her kids' long term safety and security.
Whatever the case, I've now seen two different pictures of her - one at her desk signing things and one on some steps speaking to a crowd - with the kid in a sling. I've learned that when she went back to work 3 days after giving birth, it was with the baby and his dad in tow. She's still nursing, which is commendable for anyone with a Downs baby as they have some major nursing hurdles that often make it impossible. There's also a shot of her holding him in a grocery store talking to some people.
Anyway, 3 pictures don't mean anything, but neither does my snap judgement or what I read on Yahoo! News that was 11 minutes old or a YouTube video someone edited down and presented in a certain context...I don't think anyone can know what her motives are, what kind of mother she is, any of it. I like it that she seems to really love and accept her kid, special needs and all. I like it that she went ahead and had him, knowing the difficulties that lay ahead. I like it that she's obviously making some big inconvenient efforts to keep him as close as possible while she works at the high powered job. I like it that she has 5 kids at all, because DAMN am I tired of the "Are they all yours?!" "Wow, how many - two, three, four - FIVE?!" "How do you do it - you must have your hands full!!" bs I have to hear from everyone I see in the grocery store.
And the great irony is that for all this thought I've put into her suitability for the role given her personal life - I still am up in the air about her politics! And, it hardly matters, because I still don't like McCain, who is the one actually running!
So, before I redirect you all back to the 24 hour old picture post you SHOULD be paying attention to ;) I would just like to add another topic for discussion that might make us all want to tear our hair out. Well, maybe it will make some of you want to post to stupid_free, who can know :p
Topic:
How do you, or how do you assume I, or how do you plan to (you pick) address children (of one's own) about controversial or subjective matters?
For instance, your kid overhears CNN and asks, "What is 'abortion'?" Or your Jewish child wants to know why other people wear cross necklaces. Or whatever.
I'm asking because I've realized a LOT of people assume that a homeschooling, Christian mother would be "brainwashing" their children in an effort to shield them from alternate ways of thinking and manipulate the odds that their kid will grow up agreeing with their own viewpoint.
Jumping right in to answer, when my kids asked what abortion is I told them in brief, generalized terms what it was, and then went on to say how I feel about it and how other people feel about it. To wit:
Ananda: What is abortion?
Me: *sigh* It's a medical procedure where a pregnant woman goes into the doctor and gets everything taken out of her uterus, so she isn't pregnant anymore.
Aaron: You mean the baby?
Me: The baby, or fetus, or whatever, and all the other stuff in there - the amniotic fluid and some blood clots and whatever.
Ananda: What do they do with it then?
Me: They throw it away.
Both: Screams of outrage, freaking out.
Me: I think it's wrong. I think it's killing the baby -
Ananda: BECAUSE IT IS!!!
Me: But a lot of other people don't think so, they think the baby isn't really alive until it's born, and so a woman should have the right to choose what happens to her own body and say whether she wants to have a baby or not.
Aaron: How can the baby not be alive when it's kicking?
Me: Well usually it's before there's kicking. Not always. But yeah, there is still a heartbeat and all that. I mean, I believe it is alive from the time it first exists, I believe God gives that new life a soul as soon as the cells come together -
Ananda: So do I.
Me: But not everyone even believes in God, and plenty of people think it's just a group of cells. It doesn't look like a baby yet.
Aaron: But it WOULD be a baby!
Me: I feel the same way, Bud. This is huge all over the country right now because everyone has a different opinion about it and they all feel really, really strongly. It's really hard to be 16 and pregnant, or pregnant with a baby you don't think you can afford to feed, or just pregnant when you weren't ready to have a baby, so some people feel like they can't deal with it. I don't think that is the baby's fault - I don't think it's right to punish a baby for what's going on in the woman's life. But it's a LOT, to be pregnant and have a baby. You saw me in and out of the hospital, it's a big deal that really changes you and puts a lot of risk on you.
Aaron: I can't believe that even happens, like what kind of doctor would do that? (looking near tears) I mean why can't they do what (person he cares about who was adopted who I won't name)'s mom did so the baby can still get a good family?
etc.
This is how we go about just about every conversation involving anything subjective. I wonder often if it would seem wrong to other Christian parents who think I should be telling my kids it's murder and a sin plain and simple, or if it would piss of the pro-choicers who think I'm conveying my biases loud and clear through my own beliefs, expressions, tone, history, etc etc. Probably both, I have a knack for that ;) But you know, we were at my friend Kristin's house the other day, and she is an Agnostic with pagan leanings. Her son was saying, "God!" about something and Aaron was like, "You shouldn't say that, it's bad to say the Lord's name in vain, it's like a curse word but way worse". The friend got mad and told me and Kristin "Aaron was yelling at him" (which he wasn't, but I think he just used it to mean "correcting me" or "scolding" or whatever). And I was like, "We believe in God and that it is wrong to say, so that's how Aaron feels and what he's used to. But you can just tell him, you don't believe in God, and so you don't think there's anything wrong with it. Or you can choose to not say it around him if you want to respect his beliefs. Or you can just let it go and he'll forget about it in a minute because that's how he is."
Later on, Aaron brought it up at home, saying he wanted to tell Darian that because he knows Darian doesn't believe in God and he thought it would be important to teach him about it so he can choose for himself. I told him that's his perogative, and I think it's kind of cool, but lots of other people are going to think it's really annoying and so if he's going to take that upon himself he needs to be ready for some people to get mad at him or not want to talk to him as much. Also, that it's Darian's house and so if it really makes Darian uncomfortable, he needs to just drop it.
I am always kind of shocked when I overhear some of the Catholic or Mormon parents I know saying things in these very absolute and rigid terms to children who've never heard of them before. Like, "evolution is wrong and liars believe it, but God is going to punish them". That sort of thing seriously makes me kind of shake my head and drop my jaw and blink a bunch of times. I regularly hang out with a VASTLY arrayed bunch of people...these last couple of weeks I hung out with Mormon homeschoolers, Catholic homeschoolers, the agnostic/Pagan family I mentioned, people at the non-denominational protestant church where the kids go to AWANA, our lesbian nanny, our VERY old fashioned and supersticious granite guy, my Baptist plumber neighbor, and our old high school friend Angel who is a major partying, apathetic, video game playing, womanizing somebody that seems to think it's still high school. And Shaun - who is probably the weirdest guy to anyone reading this, he's a film editor and a lapsed cradle catholic and a philosophy spouting investor...who thought we should get a houseboat to the point that he got us a personalized life ring for our deck - but I digress.
The point is it really takes me aback how everyone spouts their stuff like facts, in hushed tones of conspiracy that say it's assumed I obviously agree with them. And it makes me wonder how each of these groups sees me, and if it even matters, and by the way, how in the world were some people SURPRISED that I think mothers should stay home if they can, in that last post? Did anyone really think otherwise before I said it (this time)?
Anyway, no point. Go look at the pictures if you haven't -
From the 27th - http://altarflame.livejournal.com/327413.html
From the 29th - http://altarflame.livejournal.com/327803.html
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2008-08-30 03:42 pm (UTC)My mother explained it to me when I was around 10. Very matter-of-fact, and she's staunchly pro-choice. And I've always been pro-choice. So I definitely think even if you want to, at this age, you're going to influence them more than anything else. You already did.
I'm Obama 110%, and to be honest, I don't like the fact that she's a new mom. We're in war, we're in major recession and are facing one of the most intense elections in modern history. I want people that are devoted 110% to this job. I don't care if that makes me sound....anti-woman?...but she's not in a position to be running the country. I don't want slings and nursing in the White House. We are potentiall up to invade yet another nation with possible nuclear weaponry and we still haven't stabilized the first country we invaded. This isn't the time for Sippy Cups.
no subject
Date: 2008-08-30 03:51 pm (UTC)Anyway, yeah, no way in hell could I abort if I got pregnant. By Grant or by alleyway rape.
I'm not saying that to condemn those who do. I'm saying it to say, those varying situations don't change any of it for some of us. And, I mean, I DID start out very matter of fact about abortion, it was the kids who went crazy hysterical. I tried over and over to steer it back to matter of fact.
Anyway.
Obama has two little girls and a wife he seems close to. McCain is old as dirt and has problems related to previous cancers and surgeries. Everyone is going to bring their baggage and I would way rather someone with my set of priorities were calling the shots, to be honest...I'm kind of baffled by your last paragraph because I can think of very few things more heartening, for myself, than nursing and slings in the White House.
That doesn't really mean I think she is the right person for this. And I understand your points, really. I don't know.
no subject
Date: 2008-08-30 04:10 pm (UTC)I think its great that Palin is a mother, and I think ESPECIALLY in consideration of our current war-driven society, we probably need more of a "mother's perspective" as she has a son who is in the service. I know she doesn't want to send him to die. But her politics are conservative, full of "family values"...and I wonder how that translates with a baby waking every few hours to feed at night, in one of the most stressful jobs in the world. With first steps, first words, the most crucial years of her child's life very close...I don't see how any mother could switch those out for the White House. I dunno. I plan to be a working mother...but my job isn't impacting an entire nation. And I won't be a heart attack away from the Presidency.
Anyway I suppose I'm inherently biased as a liberal. But this VP nom is not making me feel any more secure.