Politics

[altarflame]

Just two weeks after wondering why everyone hates Hillary Clinton...I hate Hillary Clinton.

It's just RIDICULOUS, all you ever hear out of her mouth is how much Obama sucks...does she have anything - anything at all - to say that is just plain old self-promoting, rather than oponent-bashing?

The main thing that bothers me is that the Democratic Party as a whole agrees that "anything but Bush" is a good thing and that not having another Republican in office is paramount for this next election...yet she is continuously ripping apart the public image of the man who will likely be the Democratic candidate. And rather than joining forces with him and becoming UNSTOPPABLE, or bowing out now rather than keeping the party divided right up to the end, or even just running a clean campaign so that whoever gets the ticket has a chance with voters, she is ALL ABOUT HERSELF. It's so over the top and relentless.

Also, she's starting to seem decidedly hysterical - every video you see she's shrilly yelling and podium pounding, and every still has all her neck tendons sticking out...I read an article about her feeling that she is ENTITLED to win this, and being willing to stop at nothing - the writer was saying that he really thinks she WILL win, simply because she is ready to lie, steal, cheat and murder to do it.

I think it is pure crap, by the way, that superdelegates are likely to decide this for us. Especially as she has a bunch of them at her disposal, who have publically said they will vote for her as they pledged to even though it goes against what the state they represent voted. What kind of "democracy" is this?

I can only hope that with Wisconsin in the bag and the Teamsters Union endorsing him (so, hopefully, a real shot at Texas), along with Hawaii coming up and being his home state, Obama will really get such a massive lead that she won't have a chance.

Incidentally, as I've read and researched, I don't think McCain is all that bad. He is not exactly dripping in charisma and I'm not with him in everything, but he is no Huckabee either. I guess it's an unpopular view right now, but a part of me is more comfortable with a moderate president than an extremist in any direction.

And I think he WILL win, if Hillary is running against him.

Sidenote that should not play a part that does: What about how the rest of the world sees the United States? Our global image has really gone to hell in a handbasket, you know? When I imagine Obama representing us to various foreign countries and ethnic groups, it really makes SENSE. I read a (different than previously mentioned) article that talked about how people are underestimating what it will do for us to have a "brown face" representing us, as far as terrorists and oil controllers and all sorts of things go. On the other hand, Hillary...I really have a feeling the whole "laughing stock of the planet" thing will not exactly lessen if we have what many people will see as a "crazy old white lady" in charge. My father's admittedly mysoginistic viewpoint on this is that we're dealing with countries that don't even let women show their faces or see a doctor, so how do we expect them to take a woman president seriously, or, as a result, us? I don't think we should play into the hands of those sorts of expectations, no, I mean I am all about that Ghandi quote "Be the change you want to see in the world". I just think it's an interesting idea: I would still vote for a woman president if she was the best candidate, but purely being a woman is not enough. And I think that if this woman was a man, she wouldn't even be in the running. That's her selling point, you know? Not that she's pushing it herself, but that it's what much of her support comes from... It's what makes her stand out and get noticed and end up in the running. Or so it seems to me. This is a woman who's served on a bunch of large corporate boards (including WalMart), who voted for the war, who is mixed up in all kinds of unethical agricultural crap - there's a new one being posted about in natural_family every week, it seems like. And every philanthropic or grass roots or charitable move she makes just seems to be so INCREDIBLY calculated and facade-like... Then on the other hand Obama really strikes me as sincere. Which is not something politicians often do. This guy's parents are divorced, he grew up a minority, he's lived in vastly different parts of the country and in another country, he's been exposed to other religions. He just seems so REAL. He's been unpopular in government because he's for the people and making waves...Hillary is always talking about how much more experience she has, but it seems more like a crappy track record than positive experience, to me.

Edited to Add: I also saw a really interesting bit on Larry King, with Jon Stewart...JS was saying he thinks Bill Clinton doesn't want her to win because it will screw up his own legacy so badly, and that he purposely made the race comments that he did a couple of states back TO tarnish her campaign. I don't know if there could be anything to that, but I thought those Bill comments were pretty out of character and that it was an intriguing possibility.

Anyway, as always, feel free to step in and give it to me straight ;)

Edited AGAIN to say: All of this has made me think a lot about race and gender. It's interesting to me that when I first heard people talking up how Clinton is all pro-women's right I was like, um, that was 30 years ago. We have rights. It's like being for women's suffrage or ending prohibition at this point. But it isn't. I was reading some things that made me think, it really isn't. Women really do still have to work harder to get the same things, and I still don't feel like I can take a walk in my safe neighborhood at night unless Grant is with me. I still feel like my fil is always moderately patronizing of ANY female just because they're female. It's just hard for me to grapple with, because as a chosen stay at home mom, who thinks staying home with kids is REALLY important, and who thinks abortion is wrong, I always find myself on the other side of the coin, with someone who calls themself a feminist down my throat acting like my choices or beliefs are inferior. Conversely, I can't help but be moved by Obama being a black candidate. I have a Harlem-rennaissance mini-library I re-read annually just because I love it, and get all teary eyed about the Civil Rights Movement when I'm teaching my kids about it, and am beyond disgusted by redneck racists attitudes I was raised with. For me personally, even though I am a woman and even though I am not black, that "cause" impacts me more. I think I'm keeping that separate from my opinions, but I guess nobody can ever be SURE. And I guess I'm really not even certain whether it should be kept totally separate. I'm pretty equally grossed out by men not wanting to vote for a woman, as by white people not wanting to vote for a black man, though.

Comments

[babyslime.livejournal.com]

Your stepfather is on the extreme side, but there's also an ignorantly homophobic side too... just like there's an ignorantly racist side or an ignorantly sexist side: people who see themselves removed from the extremists that they immediately think of when they hear the words, they have no intention of being hateful/hurtful but may say or think things that society and culture has taught them are normal... but are still offensive and perpetuate harmful stereotypes.
It's easy to say we don't need to emphasize, or recognize the differences when you aren't the one with that difference - but GLBT people don't have a choice and have to be aware of it every day, all day, because of knowing how they will be judged and treated differently with hate or ignorance. You have straight privilege, so it's hard to relate.

"I was taught to see racism only in individual acts of meanness, not in invisible systems conferring dominance on my group" - it's true, with all forms of intolerance. We're taught to see it as the big, mean and nasty picture - not the little nuances that chip away at people.

On the same basic idea, it's why saying you're "colour blind" is a handicap, not a virtue.

(You haven't ever hurt me personally, just for the record, probably because I both trust your intentions and your ability to learn and open yourself to things that you weren't raised around or as intimately involved in.
On the same note: I hope I have never hurt you by saying racially ignorant things. I'm learning too and I hope I am a much more enlightened person months, and years from now.)

Also, I'm not a member of booju anymore so I don't know about your comments there. :-P

[altarflame.livejournal.com]

I hear what you're saying.

All of this stuff is SO HARD.

You've never hurt me with racial comments, ever. But, you have hurt me with religious stuff...I don't think you ever meant to, and I understand that it's a kind of knee-jerk reaction to things other Christians have said/done to you and yours, or in stories you've heard, but I've actually been hurt about a million times by almost every lj friend, with regard to that...I almost continuously feel I have to apologize for or explain my faith. And this isn't all a tirade directed at you, by any means...it's just an "interesting" position to be in, trying to always look into myself and dissect for judgements or ignorance about others, while most of the people who are inspiring me to are very, VERY openly blasphemous and patronizing about Christianity...

Again, this isn't all directed at you at all - you've never done any sort of "personal attack" stuff about my faith like many people have, it's more general christian jokes and like I said, I get where it comes from...it's just uncomfortable to me as I read these threads that I'm realizing that anytime anyone openly, bluntly states things that I ALSO BELIEVE, in MY JOURNAL, I get uncomfortable and want to qualify it and feel like I have to warn them about opposing views, and...I don't know, I expect very little of that in return. I really expect the Atheist, Agnostic, Pagan, Jewish, Buddhist, Unitarian Universalist, gay, bi, pro-abortion, extreme leftist and childfree readers to rip into my real life christian friends full on with no regard for their beliefs. And then reference it in booj, talk shit about it with macros in ljusersecrets and link to it in stupid_free.

If you can try to put yourself in my shoes, at some point, that just starts to seem skewed and crazy.

I'm wandering really far off topic here and don't mean to. I was reading all of the comments for this entry one after the other and so I have them all fresh in my mind. I suppose on some level there is Christian Privilege, just like there is Straight Privilege, and so you have to kind of deal with it. It's just hard for me because within my social groups - ALL of them - I really am the odd man out. Online, at La Leche League, in the Natural Family meetings I go to, and amidst people I went to high school with. Our friend Shaun is one of those "recovering Catholics" who hates the church after being raised in it in a very lapsing and hypocritical way... I don't have a "church home", I feel very much like an island. And I've gotten SO USED to bending over backwards to try to never step on any toes for years, that all of a sudden I'm thinking, what the heck would happen if I sarcastically mocked YOUR (general your) faith with stereoptypical bs, and some of the people reading who don't share it with you laughed?


Moving back over to the topic at hand...I'm sure you're right, on some level, that my thinking homosexuality is sinful is hurtful sometimes to those that are homosexual. I guess the best I can do with that is to say, I really see "sins" in personal terms...I believe they're things that keep me from God and that I don't feel right about doing, that are outlined as being wrong in the book I believe in, etc etc. I've never really presumed to tell anyone else that they're sinning, and I've rarely thought it, either. I only feel it's my job to stand up and tell somebody to quit doing something if it's hurting someone else who can't speak for themself properly, like in cases of child abuse or animal neglect or stealing from someone who doesn't realize, etc. I see everyone as complex individuals living with their own baggage and history, not as "unwed mother" or "lesbian" or "person on birth control". So unless a homosexual person was either asking me for Christian advice or was my child wanting parental guidance, which honestly is a situation I hope to never get into because I don't know how to navigate it beyond loving them no matter what, the sinful part wouldn't even be on my mind.

Also, I'm really glad I haven't ever hurt you. And, I haven't been in booj for quite awhile either - the comments I was referencing were from some time last year.

[monkeyscience.livejournal.com]

Amen.

[babyslime.livejournal.com]

I think the lines you're drawing about privilege and faith/cigarettes in an early comment are almost but not quite there largely because (and please don't kill me for this) both of them are choices made by free will.
At least, in the instance Christianity is a choice.
Your sexuality is not a choice, just like your skin colour or whether or not you're poor or able-bodied is not a choice (regardless of someone's personal belief: the sky IS blue). The world and culture isn't appearing to be 'made' for smokers or non-smokers in the matter it is for heterosexuals or white people, and while there is a VERY strong bias toward Christianity and a lot of people feel very harsh judgment when they do not 'fit the mold' so there's a huge backlash against it, particularly the idea that 'everyone should be a christian or else they're royally fucked'. BUT... it's a different type of issue than this one because of the 'choice' aspect.
I love my faith just like you do and at this point in my life I can't imagine NOT being this way - but it is STILL a choice I made. As a child I might have been indoctrinated by parents, but in the end it's still a choice I can take or leave, you know? That's why it's very, very different.
(as a note: I'm only talking about in this conversation because I am aware that religion is a bigger issue in other areas of the world, but we're drawing lines about Christianity in north america...).

In that instance (being in the Christian majority overall, with a history of violence and oppression, but finding yourself in a minority in small groups) you shouldn't bend over backwards, just be aware of others' feelings just as they should be aware of yours. For EVERYONE it's a good idea not to lecture someone else about the 'one and only' and 'going to hell' (or their faith equivalent), right? Be the change you want to see, and so on.
I mean, if we really want to make the faith/minority comparison I could say that if I was the only white person in a multi-ethnic group (or the only straight person in a meeting of gay people) I really don't have a place to be offended if they started chatting in a corner about how badly their lives had gone because of people of my race/orientation. Regardless of where I am *right now* I would be of the oppressive majority, and that's an uncomfortable place to be in, but they don't need my guilt or apologies - just quiet recognition will do. Like it or not, Christianity is a large majority, and one with a very oppressive past (and present, in a lot of areas). I'm not saying the prejudice doesn't exist, but I am saying that it's not fair to see paint it with the same brush.

On a personal note: just knowing you has changed a LOT of my knee-jerk and prejudiced views of Christianity. I used to go out of my way to not capitalize words like 'God' (instead of the occasional accident) because I was so pissed off about it all.
I am much, much, much more open minded now than I ever was before and that's 99% due to you. As corny as it sounds being able to chat with you, debate with you, toss questions back and forth and work together on common interests has 'put me on a path' toward tolerance and learning. I am really sorry for things I've said that have hurt, looking back I see myself as a really angry/hurt person about Christianity and I was acting childishly.

Now I wish we could chat or put this in email 'cause with all the freaky stalkers going around, getting all lovey-dovey seems weird with an audience. O_o;

[altarflame.livejournal.com]

I can understand why you might think so, and maybe for some people it IS so, but I overwhelmingly feel that, for me, Christianity is NOT a choice...at all. There have been many, many times that I have wished I could *not* believe this stuff because, well, my life would be easier in a lot of ways. When I was 15 and making logical decisions and doing intellectual research on religion, I actually decided (after a childhood where religion was mostly entirely absent) to be Pagan. Christianity rushed into my life and revealed itself in so many way, really, truly inarguable and almost frightening ways, and it hasn't let up much since.

I could choose to not practice, but I would never be able to stop seeing the world through this prism. Period. I would never stop believing the same things. It would be like trying not to believe that I'm in a house right now. Seriously. And so I'd basically still be practicing. I guess there may come a time when I feel like I have to share my whole conversion story and some of the reinforcing details from over the years, but up to this point I've felt like there is no way to do that without 1. making people think I'm trying to convert them, 2. sounding totally unbelievable and like a nutcase, or 3. both. So I usually don't.


And, I'm glad that you feel that way :) You've made me see SO MANY THINGS in a new light, and broadened my horizons like crazy! Starting with, I really used to very strictly laugh at internet relationships or "falling in love online" - I just thought it was the dumbest idea I'd ever heard and that only flakey teenagers who had never been in a real relationship would think something like that could work out :x

And you really might not have any idea how much you led me along to feeling empowered about pregnancy and birth. I did a lot of research and asked a lot of questions, on my own, but you made it real for me and you were the one I was calling hysterical when my mother in law told me my uterus was going to explode :p

Screw freaky stalkers!

But you can feel free to take it to email if you want to, I don't mind.

[monkeyscience.livejournal.com]

I hope you won't take it to e-mail, for my sake, because I'm very much enjoying (that is SO the wrong word, but I can't think of a better one) this conversation. I think I'm going to butt out of actually commenting on it, but I'm definitely watching. Hope that doesn't seem creepy.

[babyslime.livejournal.com]

You couldn't be uncreepy if you tried.

>:)

It was the lovey stuff I was wondering wouldn't spark some random internet weirdo on her journal.
I'm sure there's already two or three people pretending to be 30 who are shouting, "Babs once again thinks she knows everything" when I talk about learning stuff, or that "Altarflame is a dumbass bigot" when she's discussing Christianity. Plus I'm sure someone somewhere is calling us both racist/sexist/etc assholes for even mentioning the topics.
It would be an extra bonus to be able to say we're also lesbians and probably the same person. Which I'm sure will come of this conversation.

[altarflame.livejournal.com]

Not only that, but neither of "us" actually have any kids! "We're" constantly making them up, and "we" wanted to act SOOO maternal and know it all that "we" needed two personas for all 8 of them!

I've actually heard you called the "flakey, Canadian altarflame" and me "Babyslime's protege". Both of us just "kiss each others' asses" all the time...and yet, yeah, I'm sure there would be a big hooplah about us disagreeing, OR being ok with disagreeing, OR any-damn-thing.

We should stage a huge fight and talk a lot of shit about each other. It would be awesome. We could make up all this stuff and "reveal" it like it was deep secrets...I could say I refuse to let anyone into my journal who reads you, and vice versa. ALL TROLLS CHOOSE SIDES!!

Honestly, though, my life is so much better since I stopped googling my username...

[babyslime.livejournal.com]

HAHAHA!
You're brilliant.

We should think up a cool duo name for ourselves (like "Brangelina").

Heatina, or Tinabs or babyflame... altarslime.

[altarflame.livejournal.com]

altarslime is pretty damn funny. Although babyflame does have it's merits.

Just think of all the fake things we could blab about each other, as if they were confided in secret...

[babyslime.livejournal.com]

I vote for Altarslime, too. PS. I know what you did last summer. Mwa haa.

[babyslime.livejournal.com]

See, I totally get what you're saying about faith being just an... absolute. Because that's how it is for me. But I can't compare *faith* to things like skin colour, birth place, how your brain is wired, whether or not you were born with legs, etc. These things are in effect from the womb onward, you cannot change them even if you hate them with every part of you. You can't just not believe you are Cuban, or poor, or English speaking...
If you hated being a Christian, you could easily change that: so to me these things just can't compare.

Like, I can't say that after years of wondering what was 'right' it just HIT ME and I officially converted to being a cracker. ;)
The point being that it is a choice for a large portion of the world, or they converted, or they studied and thought about it blah blah... it's a very different animal than whether or not you're gay, have a vagina or dark skin.


As for the warm fuzzy feelings: AwwwwWWWWwwww. I feel loved.

[altarflame.livejournal.com]

I know what you're saying and I think that skin color or obvious disability or homosexuality have another "absolute" thing that faith doesn't - they are immediately visible (if you're out with your partner or trying to get a mortgage with them or what have you, or fall deeply into gay stereotypes, at least). Whereas people don't really know you're Christian or Pagan or Jewish or whatever unless you choose to tell them.

I don't think I could just quit being Christian, though...I could choose to turn my back on God but I would still believe it all, and I would feel and think that I was sinning and it would be a cloud hanging over my head always. It would be cumulative, too, I think...

It actually feels very similar to me, honestly, to how I think it would be to try to quit being homosexual. You can not act on your feelings or you can go through the motions of a hetero lifestyle, but it's still going to be there, in your thoughts and your emotions and it's going to stifle you so badly and bleed into every aspect of your existence that you're living a lie and ignoring who you are...Bah. I feel like I'm going to just sound contrary or belittling and I really, REALLY don't mean to.

[babyslime.livejournal.com]

Hmm... I see what you're saying, and I also think we're missing each other a bit. (PS. You get extra bonus points for recognizing that being GLBT is immediately apparent pretty much as soon as you try to live a normal life, most people on 'the other side' do not agree with that so it warms me to see that you do).

Like, you can't quit being a Christian because you believe, but it's possible for you 'not to believe' at one point (just like you didn't before you found Christianity). It's not possible for you to just 'not be female'.
I mean, not without expensive surgery and some serious discussion with Grant.