Politics

[altarflame]

Just two weeks after wondering why everyone hates Hillary Clinton...I hate Hillary Clinton.

It's just RIDICULOUS, all you ever hear out of her mouth is how much Obama sucks...does she have anything - anything at all - to say that is just plain old self-promoting, rather than oponent-bashing?

The main thing that bothers me is that the Democratic Party as a whole agrees that "anything but Bush" is a good thing and that not having another Republican in office is paramount for this next election...yet she is continuously ripping apart the public image of the man who will likely be the Democratic candidate. And rather than joining forces with him and becoming UNSTOPPABLE, or bowing out now rather than keeping the party divided right up to the end, or even just running a clean campaign so that whoever gets the ticket has a chance with voters, she is ALL ABOUT HERSELF. It's so over the top and relentless.

Also, she's starting to seem decidedly hysterical - every video you see she's shrilly yelling and podium pounding, and every still has all her neck tendons sticking out...I read an article about her feeling that she is ENTITLED to win this, and being willing to stop at nothing - the writer was saying that he really thinks she WILL win, simply because she is ready to lie, steal, cheat and murder to do it.

I think it is pure crap, by the way, that superdelegates are likely to decide this for us. Especially as she has a bunch of them at her disposal, who have publically said they will vote for her as they pledged to even though it goes against what the state they represent voted. What kind of "democracy" is this?

I can only hope that with Wisconsin in the bag and the Teamsters Union endorsing him (so, hopefully, a real shot at Texas), along with Hawaii coming up and being his home state, Obama will really get such a massive lead that she won't have a chance.

Incidentally, as I've read and researched, I don't think McCain is all that bad. He is not exactly dripping in charisma and I'm not with him in everything, but he is no Huckabee either. I guess it's an unpopular view right now, but a part of me is more comfortable with a moderate president than an extremist in any direction.

And I think he WILL win, if Hillary is running against him.

Sidenote that should not play a part that does: What about how the rest of the world sees the United States? Our global image has really gone to hell in a handbasket, you know? When I imagine Obama representing us to various foreign countries and ethnic groups, it really makes SENSE. I read a (different than previously mentioned) article that talked about how people are underestimating what it will do for us to have a "brown face" representing us, as far as terrorists and oil controllers and all sorts of things go. On the other hand, Hillary...I really have a feeling the whole "laughing stock of the planet" thing will not exactly lessen if we have what many people will see as a "crazy old white lady" in charge. My father's admittedly mysoginistic viewpoint on this is that we're dealing with countries that don't even let women show their faces or see a doctor, so how do we expect them to take a woman president seriously, or, as a result, us? I don't think we should play into the hands of those sorts of expectations, no, I mean I am all about that Ghandi quote "Be the change you want to see in the world". I just think it's an interesting idea: I would still vote for a woman president if she was the best candidate, but purely being a woman is not enough. And I think that if this woman was a man, she wouldn't even be in the running. That's her selling point, you know? Not that she's pushing it herself, but that it's what much of her support comes from... It's what makes her stand out and get noticed and end up in the running. Or so it seems to me. This is a woman who's served on a bunch of large corporate boards (including WalMart), who voted for the war, who is mixed up in all kinds of unethical agricultural crap - there's a new one being posted about in natural_family every week, it seems like. And every philanthropic or grass roots or charitable move she makes just seems to be so INCREDIBLY calculated and facade-like... Then on the other hand Obama really strikes me as sincere. Which is not something politicians often do. This guy's parents are divorced, he grew up a minority, he's lived in vastly different parts of the country and in another country, he's been exposed to other religions. He just seems so REAL. He's been unpopular in government because he's for the people and making waves...Hillary is always talking about how much more experience she has, but it seems more like a crappy track record than positive experience, to me.

Edited to Add: I also saw a really interesting bit on Larry King, with Jon Stewart...JS was saying he thinks Bill Clinton doesn't want her to win because it will screw up his own legacy so badly, and that he purposely made the race comments that he did a couple of states back TO tarnish her campaign. I don't know if there could be anything to that, but I thought those Bill comments were pretty out of character and that it was an intriguing possibility.

Anyway, as always, feel free to step in and give it to me straight ;)

Edited AGAIN to say: All of this has made me think a lot about race and gender. It's interesting to me that when I first heard people talking up how Clinton is all pro-women's right I was like, um, that was 30 years ago. We have rights. It's like being for women's suffrage or ending prohibition at this point. But it isn't. I was reading some things that made me think, it really isn't. Women really do still have to work harder to get the same things, and I still don't feel like I can take a walk in my safe neighborhood at night unless Grant is with me. I still feel like my fil is always moderately patronizing of ANY female just because they're female. It's just hard for me to grapple with, because as a chosen stay at home mom, who thinks staying home with kids is REALLY important, and who thinks abortion is wrong, I always find myself on the other side of the coin, with someone who calls themself a feminist down my throat acting like my choices or beliefs are inferior. Conversely, I can't help but be moved by Obama being a black candidate. I have a Harlem-rennaissance mini-library I re-read annually just because I love it, and get all teary eyed about the Civil Rights Movement when I'm teaching my kids about it, and am beyond disgusted by redneck racists attitudes I was raised with. For me personally, even though I am a woman and even though I am not black, that "cause" impacts me more. I think I'm keeping that separate from my opinions, but I guess nobody can ever be SURE. And I guess I'm really not even certain whether it should be kept totally separate. I'm pretty equally grossed out by men not wanting to vote for a woman, as by white people not wanting to vote for a black man, though.

Comments

[julierocket.livejournal.com]

or bowing out now rather than keeping the party divided right up to the end, or even just running a clean campaign so that whoever gets the ticket has a chance with voters, she is ALL ABOUT HERSELF.


Mark was saying about a year ago that the good thing about Obama was that he was all about uniting people and was against the whole "Reps vs Dems" state of politics in this country... and that Hillary was going to be a bad choice because she herself is a divisive figure. People either love her or HATE her. And I totally agree with both of you on that.

[babyslime.livejournal.com]

To me you totally hit the nail on the head saying that if Hilary wasn't a woman she wouldn't have a strong platform.

John McCain is scary! Not that this is the end all be all, but it's one of the reasons why I find him scary: Satire video spoof of Will.I.Am's Obama song, except for McCain. Then again, I'm not a republican. :-P
Although even Curtis' conservative, republican parents wouldn't vote for him. O_o

Also, I'm not THAT bugged by the smear stuff because it's kind of par for the course, but I am bugged when it's such blatant hypocrisy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H60y8mHMpmU

[altarflame.livejournal.com]

Well, many republicans don't want to vote for McCain because he often votes democrat on individual issues, which is why I've seen a lot of lj'ers contemplating whether they'd vote for him over Hillary, if it came to that. The video is awful, but I think it's kind of "pick and choose" editing, too, to some degree. He really is pretty moderate as republicans go.

And, I know smear stuff is par for the course to some degree, but she is really, REALLY over the top with it...I mean I think anyone watching, more than they might think she wants to be president or she's against Bush or anything, would just think she must passionately loathe Obama. Which is nonsense.

[babyslime.livejournal.com]

I do agree with your last statement, but that doesn't negate mine. :-P

I also have no idea where the video originated, so I wouldn't know if it was done exclusively by Obama supporters or not. I randomed across it last week but it's been making the circles for longer.

[monkeyscience.livejournal.com]

Okay, I have to say that the Obama video makes me want to barf, and the McCain video just makes me scratch my head.

I would never in a million years vote for Hillary, and I live in fear that the nation might be stupid enough to elect her if she's nominated, so I definitely support Obama for Democratic nominee. Of course, I haven't decided if I'm voting Democrat, Republican, or other in this election.

However, I am VERY leery of the starry-eyed worship Obama seems to be attracting. Hence my gag reaction to that video. I'm sorry, but politics is a dirty, ugly business. A lot of things can be changed by the right candidates, but that is just NOT one of them. Getting all mushy inside about how inspirational a candidate is seems dangerous to me. In the first place, I don't think we should be looking to political figures for inspiration (although it would be lovely if they were better role models). Second, the American government is not run on dreams. I'm not saying don't have them, but I am saying politicians have to be ready to persuade, compromise, cut deals, and collaborate. It's a very fine line between a politician that's too slippery and cutthroat and one who's not calculating enough. I don't know if Obama has what it takes to run this country, but I find the way some of his supporters are acting disturbing.

I must admit, in order to avoid intellectual plagiarism, that this article (http://www.slate.com/id/2158578/) has definitely influenced my thinking, though I found the Obama video creepy even before that.

P.S. The Hillary Hypocrisy video was absolutely priceless.

I forgot to use my political icon last time, but I'll make up for it now

[babyslime.livejournal.com]

This seemed totally out of left field in response to my comment since I didn't link the Obama Will.I.Am video (at least not intentionally?) and didn't talk about Obama. :-P

The talk of people being put off from voting for Obama because of a group of people who are starry-eyed is kind of like saying you're put off by Islamic worship because of 9/11. :-/ Don't let the weird actions of the extremists influence you, because they really have absolutely nothing to do with him OR the campaign. Their support, or hatred, doesn't really matter at all. I also wonder how much of it is just 'the internetz' culture, which is by nature over the top and obscure. Like lolbama, for instance.
That said, being inspired isn't necessarily a bad thing. The Will.I.Am video was what introduced me to this race because it had made it to positive youth culture (which is an accomplishment, you have to admit), and inspired me to go searching for more on the political trails (both Hillary and Obama) and GET interested. My curiosity was piqued and I immediately WANTED to know more about why everyone was suddenly in such a frenzy.

I don't personally hate Hillary at all; even though I don't want her to win the democratic seat I do NOT want to see her concede even if for some reaon she was seriously lagging behind: I'd want her to push, push, push and I feel that her fire is a very good feature. But I don't like some of her politics - that's all. I also find the notion that women should vote for her as ludicrous as the idea that people should vote for Obama because he's "cool".

Re: your link - there's another site out there from Hillary supporters 'proving' that Obama is the antichrist! So, it takes all kinds to be clinically insane. ;)
The thing is, I'm sure people went just as overboard for lots of other candidates, the internet just makes it more public and since Obama has struck a chord with the youth culture his crazy fans get more attention than Hillary's crazy fans, or McCain's crazy fans, etc... Plus he's become an internet meme, which like all memes, will be over in two weeks. :-P

[altarflame.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean. I have a hard streak of political cynicism that is not so easily glossed over...the two things that the fervor and zeal make me think of straightaway are the way Hitler could rally the people, and how JFK had that same effect and then they killed him :/ I don't think Barack Obama is either of those guys - although I've read more than one projection that he'll be shot if he's elected - but there is definitely something about many young people passionately believing in a candidate that, good though it is, is also scary...I guess I am someone who is frightened by vulnerability anyway, though, so it seems like leaving ourselves open...

I will say, though, that in another way it is great to hear hope from people, and see them united...really great.

[-evalution.livejournal.com]

i actually agree with you 100% on everything, except john mccain. hes insanely terrifying, in my opinion.

have you seen these two videos? they were making the rounds a while ago. the obama one brings me to tears.



and the funny mccain spoof

[-evalution.livejournal.com]

oh, doh. babyslime already linked that.

[lady-goodman.livejournal.com]

for what it's worth...

I know you don't know me but I don't hate hilary. I was originally an edwards supporter but when he dropped out I switched my support to edwards. My reservations about Obama stem from having voted for Deval Patrick who ran an identical campaign to Obama and has been awful since elected. I can't in good conscience cast my vote for Barack based on optimism alone at this point and this is where Hilary's whole misguided plagarism thing stemmed from. The problem with a candidate that is green politically is they struggle with fighting against the system. (I use green here to mean inexperienced). There are also some policy differences between barack and hilary that are hard to disregard (he has huge ties to the auto industry that encourage his support of ethanol for example which is widely considered worse for the enironment than fossil fuels while Hilary is pushing for wind/solar proposals and the whole universal health care proposal she's lobbying for is something I support -- as someone in Massachusetts I feel comfortable saying it has not been anything but a positive for people here).

Just another point of view. I don't think either candidate is unethical or above the ability to be influenced by the wrong people. I just happen to think of the two (and I am planning to give more attention to McCain during the general election), Hilary represent the candidate who stands to accomplish more for middle to lower income people and as someone firmly in the middle, she'll get my vote.

[lady-goodman.livejournal.com]

I obviously meant to say I'm supporting hilary now that edwards dropped out.

[altarflame.livejournal.com]

Grant was also originally interested in supporting Edwards.

This sounds really dumb, but thank you for sharing.

[neurotic-orchid.livejournal.com]

all you ever hear out of her mouth is how much Obama sucks

If this is all you've heard from her, then I would say you're listening to and/or seaking out bias media. I've heard a helluva lot more, because I'm listening to all of it.

I could say the same about Obama's smear campaign.

I'm so frustrated by his empty words, homophobic ties, generalizations, hidden contradictions (that pop out ever so often and then are quickly covered up by the increasingly bias media), and general spew right now, that if he wins the nomination, I will probably feel pushed to support McCain, which surprises even myself. I think if it comes down to McCain and Obama, I will finally feel relieved (instead of competely frazzled) not to have a vote.

I disagree with the argument that Obama will be more popular in foreign countries, thereby helping the United States' international image. Hillary Clinton has visited 82 countries and has made life-altering changes for women and other underprivileged groups around the world. She has actively fought for human rights around the world in many different nations since she was 17 years old. She is quite respected and well-liked in most parts of the world.

I agree with you about the super delegates. Then again, I could say the same about the undemocratic caucuses: http://guerillawomentn.blogspot.com/2008/02/disenfranchising-hillarys-base.html

I'm content to agree to disagree on this one.

[eiretamicha.livejournal.com]

I have to echo pretty much everything said in this comment.

Also, about the whole "rest of the world not taking a country led by an old white lady seriously"...well, all I can say is that Ireland is on its second woman president, and the whole world seems to love them. :p

[monkeyscience.livejournal.com]

Hehe... if you're so upset you don't get a vote in American politics, Pammy, you should just convince your government to invade the U.S. and establish the 'right' political system... ;)

[altarflame.livejournal.com]

What do you think I should be looking at, to learn more about Hillary? That is honest curiosity, I'm not challenging you. As it is I've been watching the articles unfold on the CNN, USAToday and BBC feeds, as well as listening to NPR in the van here and there. I catch things sporatically so it's possible I'm not getting a full story.

I don't know anything about the bad things you were saying about Obama (homophobic ties, generalizations, empty words, etc). Again, and please hear it as I mean it, I would appreciate links or examples if you have them.

It could very well be that Hillary's image is more positive in the rest of the world than it is here...here it's kind of crazy how people don't like her. At first I was just kind of confused by it, wondering if it was just a personality or aesthetic thing or how much peoples' being "threatened by women in power" really is at work, but then I started paying more attention and really, it's been very hard for me to hear her say almost anything about herself (in my admittedly sparse and broken into little bits, time).

[eternamariposa.livejournal.com]

Of all of the possible reactions that I could have to the many points you bring up I have to say the main one is embarrassment. I have been so totally ignorant to the candidates and all of the media coverage that I don't feel fit to weigh in at all. Except to say, are there any suggestions on how to get accurate info. to be better informed. I have been thinking of my responsiblity as a parent to pay attention when these leaders are in such powerful positions to affect my family's life. Better late than never right?

[altarflame.livejournal.com]

I'll spare you the bs spam anonymous comments about how we're both hopelessly ignorant ;) God Bless screening.

Anyway.

I knew very little awhile back, like almost nothing but names. Do you have a google homepage? It's really easy to set one up and then you can subscribe to whatever feeds you want, and the latest articles in them will pop up on it...for instance, I have CNN, the BBC, USAToday, a National Geographic photo of the day, a neurology feed, a recipe one, some knitting pattern ones...if you go to google and look there are hundreds and hundreds to choose from in every imagineable category. Anyway, that is one place to get updated info. For baseline information, and I know this is controversial, I really like wikipedia for this. I saw a guy on Colbert talking about his magazine was very skeptical and did a study that found that wikipedia is actually like 97% accurate...I am willing to accept a margin of error like that because it's so unbiased. If you go to the candidates' websites, or the websites that zealous followers put up, you get a lot of info, but it's all presented to sell them.

Late is definitely better than never! And don't feel bad, I was talking to Mom on the phone earlier tonight and she is way behind you or I, AND doesn't really care anyway.

I find that I get a whole lot of information just by posting what I'm assuming or wondering or reacting to, here, and then watching the dialogue unfold. A lot of people who read this are REALLY polar opposites and so I tend to hear quite a bit...see Matt Irwin's reply above, for one good example of what I mean. One problem this leads to for me is that I really can see things from almost anyone's perspective, at least enough to understand where they're coming from.

[bonny-katie.livejournal.com]

I flat out refuse to vote for her if she gets the nomination.

I'll either vote for McCain or stay home.

[mommydama.livejournal.com]

Please don't think I'm not reading or don't care what you have to say because I haven't commented on this one.

Politics are emotional for me right now and I don't feel up to the debate. I can't distance myself from it enough to engage in calm conversation. I'm pretty sure I'd be offensive to just about everyone on your f-list.

I'm becoming somewhat radical in my opinions lately. I'm pretty sure that is NOT a good thing, but I don't know how to stop it.

And...I have no earthly clue who I am going to vote for. The only person I could vote for with a clear concience has no hope. It is very discouraging.

[the-leh.livejournal.com]

Clinton who once fought for socialized medicine, is now being backed in a large part by the Medical Industry. If she's willing to sell out the health of the American people to get ahead, what else is she willing to do? It makes me a little ill.

While I don't know that Obama will be able to make all his promises come true for the people, I sure do like what he has to say.

[pernwebgoddess.livejournal.com]

I don't have much else to comment about (politics make me nauseous, and I'm not concerning my self with it until the final delegates have been chosen) but I did want to comment on your women's rights edits.

All any female has to do is undergo the rites of childbirth through the medical establishment, and nurse a child for any length of time beyond when you stay home all the time, and you know just how far back in the stone age we can be. Patronizing doctors who know better than you, teach you not to trust your own body, busybodies who feel that women and babies should be never seen OR heard, and that where we eliminate waste is the best place for feeding a child. Or that they have a right to impede a child's feeding in any way.

[altarflame.livejournal.com]

That is a very good point.

I want to say it again for emphasis almost, I mean damn.