Sick Kids | Evolving Abortion Thoughts
Feb. 13th, 2008 11:11 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
altarflameOh goodness. What a crazy few days. That sickness I mentioned in the last post has been making the rounds big time...it seems to come back for seconds and thirds on everybody :/ There was the whole night that I nursed and crooned to Elise for 10 hours of exhaustion while Grant either dozed or rushed to sit in the steamy bathroom again with croupy Jake. The day he and I took turns wearing her all day long while the other played with him, because she had such a fever but he was still clingy. Yesterday he had VeriFone and Isaac had it, as well as Jake still recovering, and I was running on like 5 broken hours of sleep in a 48 hour period...argh. The whole time, Aaron is laying around on the couch asking for tea and books and refusing food and needing a backrub. I decided to run a sweatshop - Ananda got up and I said "Babe, how would you like to have a job today? I'll pay you a dollar fifty an hour." She was thrilled, so there that was and it actually worked out really well - she played with Elise most of the time that Jake nursed for TWO SOLID HOURS, and took drinks to Isaac and Aaron while I cooked lunch holding Elise, and made batter while I nursed and changed Elise, and read Isaac books while I rubbed Aaron's back, and started laundry and put away clean dishes so I could start more of each...it was kind of incredible. I gave her a $1 bonus after she ran around behind my sweeping with a mop :p She ended up spending it all on an orchid at Lowe's, that she's thrilled with.
Today was just as needy - all our boys are hoarse and cranky - but Grant was here so it wasn't nearly so nutty for me. Tomorrow, though, he starts a 3 day spell of 12 hour shifts :x Plus commute. Somebody saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaave me, let your warm hands melt...ok probably most of you don't watch Smallville.
One thing you get a lot of done when you're forced to sit, stand or lay basically captive with no entertainment, is thinking. I've composed most of a story (mentally) that I want to submit to a magazine. I've come full circle and back again politically, on all sorts of issues. There are so many things I'd like to write about, but really I don't think I'll have very much time.
Every single thing I catch a byline about, hear a mention of on tv or NPR, EVERYTHING makes me like Obama more and Hillary less.
I had a kind of epiphany the other day, about the abortion thing. It's one of those things I can't please anyone with - the liberals reading are going to slap there foreheads and think I'm pretty dense for just coming around to it and the conservatives are going to think I'm moving to the dark side, but hey I'm getting used to ideological isolation ;)
Anyway, basically...I don't believe in abortion, as previously stated. I think it's wrong, it's killing, it's sad, tragic, whatever. I don't hate people who've HAD abortions, I just think it's a procedure I see very differently than they do. So I try to weigh things, you know, in my mind, I try to figure out how I should prioritize my political life. People die in wars, that's horrible. People die in electric chairs, THAT's horrible. I can't control any of this, I get just one vote, and of course when it really comes right down to it I've always felt that if I WAS given the power to say abortion would be illegal..I'm not sure I could do that. It would save a bunch of unborn babies, it would endanger some desperate women, it would enrage a whole LOT of people who have totally different belief systems than me and it would feel like I was forcing total strangers to undergo life altering circumstances because I think they should. Which is, you know, wack.
Though I will not lie, part of me is like, it's not ME saying they have to undergo life altering circumstances, it's basic nature, it's biology, it's God's will, whatever you want to call it or think it is I didn't get anybody pregnant. How did we get around to a point where a fetus is a burden nobody should be forced to bear, or an infringement of basic rights? That's ridiculous.
But the rest of me is confused. I think I should have sovereign rights over how and where and when I want to birth any baby I gestate. Regardless of whether someone less or more informed or educated thinks it's more dangerous, regardless even of whether or not it IS more dangerous. Because...why? Because it's my body. Because it's my baby. Because nobody else is up in this but us.
Well. This is where I start to think maybe from certain perspectives I'm trying to have my cake and eat it too. I mean you can't even pass laws granting fetuses personhood or else you can try a woman for attempted murder if she refuses a c-section. Or reckless endangerment or whatever the hell "they" term it to be.
Again the pro-life part of me speaks up, NO, you can choose to educate your born child however you see fit or to feed it anything that will keep it alive, but you can't beat it or kill it. There is a line of intent, my birth choices are not intentionally harming like an abortion would be...but I'll bet, I'll just bet there are women out there who are INTENDING to save their unborn kid WITH an abortion, from their abusive spouse or their life of poverty or their severely bipolar genes or who knows what. I'll bet there are women who cry their eyes out, haunted and grieving for a child they just can't inflict this or that life on. I disagree, yeah, but who the hell am *I*, in that highly personal deal?
There are a lot of gray areas here (that is a cliche for a reason). A lot. There are things I did "wrong" with my first two kids, wrong by my definition for myself, I mean. I didn't know about cloth diapers, I fed jarred baby food and weaned at a year and I didn't even know what a sling was. I did a lot right too, I was a good mother, I was a GREAT mother for an 18 year old with back to back kids and very little support - they were read to and played with and healthy and happy and I never yelled at or hit or neglected anyone. But my house was a big nasty mess and I stayed in a bad situation with them for too long, out of teenage stupidity and misplaced loyalty and who knows what else, that put them in danger...
Basically I went around in big mental circles like this for a long long time the other day. God entrusts kids to our care knowing we're sinners, knowing we're selfish, knowing we don't know the future. He entrusts them to us and then...he sits back and watches. He watches everything. And maybe some of it is bad, but he doesn't step in to stop you. He gives you free will.
That was my epiphany. God gives us free will. And maybe Christians are being really backwards trying to stop abortion by making it unattainable and impossible. That's not what God does. I'm not sure I always agree with it, but the trendy way for modern Christians to gauge all answers is supposed to be to ask "What Would Jesus Do?" Jesus would grant people free will. He already HAS granted people free will. He'd talk to them and love them and help them if they asked for it, and advise them if they felt like listening, but mostly he would just be present. And forgive whoever needed it if they said they were sorry. And deal with it who knows which way after we all die and know all the stuff none of us can know now.
If we look around and there are doctors who think it's important or at least ok to provide abortions and women who go to them to have them done, maybe (well, obviously) the thing to do is to step in and figure out how to make this world a place a woman would want to have a baby in. Not to (this is where I meant to say maybe) criminalize them both and illegalize sin.
This was all inspired by an article I was linked to by a commenter, that was titled something like, "Why I'm pro-life and voting for Obama with a clear conscience". The whole thing was about how it's peoples' hearts, not their laws, that have to change if we want abortion to lessen or even end, and that Obama will make this country a place where it isn't so scary to get pregnant. It seemed very cut and dry at the time. In the days since, though, I've gone on to wonder...
What about protecting the innocent?
Because we DO punish people for hurting born children. We can't prevent it but we penalize for it because some things SHOULD just be black-and-white wrong, gray areas aside.
...Or do we? I'm someone who's against CPS involvement in the vast majority of cases because I think parents have sovereign rights and that kids will always want their parents, love their parents, look to their parents...you can remove them from them but that will not erase what's been done or stop it from shaping their life. You can fill up their heart, but somehow the hole left behind where parents should have been will transcend it. You can't save a child from their own mother; one way or the other, they'll have to live with her in the end. That's what we're trying to do by illegalizing abortion: get between the mother and the child that's inside her body and save it from her. I mean I'm someone who thinks that just growing inside a mother who's ambivalent and resentful about your existence can cause you trouble. I think I've done it to one of my kids. This shit runs deep. I look at my sister's sister in law who's formula feeding and (admittedly, bitches about it) can't afford it, and her baby has all this gas and reflux and is inconsolable and the woman is complaining to Laura about how her engorgement won't go away and the kid doesn't want a pacifier, and yeah ok I'm a weirdo I guess because I can actually cry about that situation. I would nurse that baby. But that baby doesn't want me. It wants it's mother. And I can't make it's mother do a damn thing. And a part of me wants to be able to force that, too, you know? There is a part of me that thinks, if there was no formula available except by prescription when there was a real problem, women like that would feed their damn babies.
Or else they'd have wet nurses and go in the back yard and milk the goat or whatever else was done for centuries back when women didn't want to nurse their babies. My mother in law's mom gave them all corn syrup and some flour concoction. I don't even know how they lived. It's like the back alley abortion of illegalized breastfeeding I guess.
My admittedly copout answer to all of this is still, "I'm glad I'm not the one in charge".
Feel free to comment and don't worry about offending me.
Today was just as needy - all our boys are hoarse and cranky - but Grant was here so it wasn't nearly so nutty for me. Tomorrow, though, he starts a 3 day spell of 12 hour shifts :x Plus commute. Somebody saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaave me, let your warm hands melt...ok probably most of you don't watch Smallville.
One thing you get a lot of done when you're forced to sit, stand or lay basically captive with no entertainment, is thinking. I've composed most of a story (mentally) that I want to submit to a magazine. I've come full circle and back again politically, on all sorts of issues. There are so many things I'd like to write about, but really I don't think I'll have very much time.
Every single thing I catch a byline about, hear a mention of on tv or NPR, EVERYTHING makes me like Obama more and Hillary less.
I had a kind of epiphany the other day, about the abortion thing. It's one of those things I can't please anyone with - the liberals reading are going to slap there foreheads and think I'm pretty dense for just coming around to it and the conservatives are going to think I'm moving to the dark side, but hey I'm getting used to ideological isolation ;)
Anyway, basically...I don't believe in abortion, as previously stated. I think it's wrong, it's killing, it's sad, tragic, whatever. I don't hate people who've HAD abortions, I just think it's a procedure I see very differently than they do. So I try to weigh things, you know, in my mind, I try to figure out how I should prioritize my political life. People die in wars, that's horrible. People die in electric chairs, THAT's horrible. I can't control any of this, I get just one vote, and of course when it really comes right down to it I've always felt that if I WAS given the power to say abortion would be illegal..I'm not sure I could do that. It would save a bunch of unborn babies, it would endanger some desperate women, it would enrage a whole LOT of people who have totally different belief systems than me and it would feel like I was forcing total strangers to undergo life altering circumstances because I think they should. Which is, you know, wack.
Though I will not lie, part of me is like, it's not ME saying they have to undergo life altering circumstances, it's basic nature, it's biology, it's God's will, whatever you want to call it or think it is I didn't get anybody pregnant. How did we get around to a point where a fetus is a burden nobody should be forced to bear, or an infringement of basic rights? That's ridiculous.
But the rest of me is confused. I think I should have sovereign rights over how and where and when I want to birth any baby I gestate. Regardless of whether someone less or more informed or educated thinks it's more dangerous, regardless even of whether or not it IS more dangerous. Because...why? Because it's my body. Because it's my baby. Because nobody else is up in this but us.
Well. This is where I start to think maybe from certain perspectives I'm trying to have my cake and eat it too. I mean you can't even pass laws granting fetuses personhood or else you can try a woman for attempted murder if she refuses a c-section. Or reckless endangerment or whatever the hell "they" term it to be.
Again the pro-life part of me speaks up, NO, you can choose to educate your born child however you see fit or to feed it anything that will keep it alive, but you can't beat it or kill it. There is a line of intent, my birth choices are not intentionally harming like an abortion would be...but I'll bet, I'll just bet there are women out there who are INTENDING to save their unborn kid WITH an abortion, from their abusive spouse or their life of poverty or their severely bipolar genes or who knows what. I'll bet there are women who cry their eyes out, haunted and grieving for a child they just can't inflict this or that life on. I disagree, yeah, but who the hell am *I*, in that highly personal deal?
There are a lot of gray areas here (that is a cliche for a reason). A lot. There are things I did "wrong" with my first two kids, wrong by my definition for myself, I mean. I didn't know about cloth diapers, I fed jarred baby food and weaned at a year and I didn't even know what a sling was. I did a lot right too, I was a good mother, I was a GREAT mother for an 18 year old with back to back kids and very little support - they were read to and played with and healthy and happy and I never yelled at or hit or neglected anyone. But my house was a big nasty mess and I stayed in a bad situation with them for too long, out of teenage stupidity and misplaced loyalty and who knows what else, that put them in danger...
Basically I went around in big mental circles like this for a long long time the other day. God entrusts kids to our care knowing we're sinners, knowing we're selfish, knowing we don't know the future. He entrusts them to us and then...he sits back and watches. He watches everything. And maybe some of it is bad, but he doesn't step in to stop you. He gives you free will.
That was my epiphany. God gives us free will. And maybe Christians are being really backwards trying to stop abortion by making it unattainable and impossible. That's not what God does. I'm not sure I always agree with it, but the trendy way for modern Christians to gauge all answers is supposed to be to ask "What Would Jesus Do?" Jesus would grant people free will. He already HAS granted people free will. He'd talk to them and love them and help them if they asked for it, and advise them if they felt like listening, but mostly he would just be present. And forgive whoever needed it if they said they were sorry. And deal with it who knows which way after we all die and know all the stuff none of us can know now.
If we look around and there are doctors who think it's important or at least ok to provide abortions and women who go to them to have them done, maybe (well, obviously) the thing to do is to step in and figure out how to make this world a place a woman would want to have a baby in. Not to (this is where I meant to say maybe) criminalize them both and illegalize sin.
This was all inspired by an article I was linked to by a commenter, that was titled something like, "Why I'm pro-life and voting for Obama with a clear conscience". The whole thing was about how it's peoples' hearts, not their laws, that have to change if we want abortion to lessen or even end, and that Obama will make this country a place where it isn't so scary to get pregnant. It seemed very cut and dry at the time. In the days since, though, I've gone on to wonder...
What about protecting the innocent?
Because we DO punish people for hurting born children. We can't prevent it but we penalize for it because some things SHOULD just be black-and-white wrong, gray areas aside.
...Or do we? I'm someone who's against CPS involvement in the vast majority of cases because I think parents have sovereign rights and that kids will always want their parents, love their parents, look to their parents...you can remove them from them but that will not erase what's been done or stop it from shaping their life. You can fill up their heart, but somehow the hole left behind where parents should have been will transcend it. You can't save a child from their own mother; one way or the other, they'll have to live with her in the end. That's what we're trying to do by illegalizing abortion: get between the mother and the child that's inside her body and save it from her. I mean I'm someone who thinks that just growing inside a mother who's ambivalent and resentful about your existence can cause you trouble. I think I've done it to one of my kids. This shit runs deep. I look at my sister's sister in law who's formula feeding and (admittedly, bitches about it) can't afford it, and her baby has all this gas and reflux and is inconsolable and the woman is complaining to Laura about how her engorgement won't go away and the kid doesn't want a pacifier, and yeah ok I'm a weirdo I guess because I can actually cry about that situation. I would nurse that baby. But that baby doesn't want me. It wants it's mother. And I can't make it's mother do a damn thing. And a part of me wants to be able to force that, too, you know? There is a part of me that thinks, if there was no formula available except by prescription when there was a real problem, women like that would feed their damn babies.
Or else they'd have wet nurses and go in the back yard and milk the goat or whatever else was done for centuries back when women didn't want to nurse their babies. My mother in law's mom gave them all corn syrup and some flour concoction. I don't even know how they lived. It's like the back alley abortion of illegalized breastfeeding I guess.
My admittedly copout answer to all of this is still, "I'm glad I'm not the one in charge".
Feel free to comment and don't worry about offending me.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2008-02-14 07:17 am (UTC)One of the things I remember my priest telling me as I was on my way through chrismation was that the Orthodox church could never give a blessing to a woman having an abortion, even if it was for medical reasons, but that the church would immediately forgive her, and that our primary job was to support and love her, not judge her.
Life is way more complex than politics and the law would make it seem.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-16 09:50 am (UTC)And I always love hearing Orthodox perspectives.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-14 11:04 am (UTC)2) Not taking steps to illegalize it is not the same thing as saying it's OK.
3) Based on His past actions, what do you think Jesus do about this whole thing? I feel like he would cry about it and console the mothers. Not stand outside of Cesar's castle saying he should put a ban on it. I'm not saying vote or don't vote for this or that legislation, I'm saying your energy may be better focused elsewhere.
4) For ME personally, I feel like the most important thing is to try to follow God's law yourself and Love others. When you try to enforce God's law on others, it's like you are judging them. This is where I get my philosophy on homosexuality. I know that it's not right for me and I would be sinning, but I don't know everyone else's heart and their relationship with God. So, I don't judge them and call them sinners. I just try to Love them as I feel Jesus would.
5) I'm not trying to say that I know more than you or I'm better. I admit that sometimes I am wrong. I'm just expressing my opinion on this.
from eBirdie
Date: 2008-02-14 03:41 pm (UTC)Does that mean we don't love the mothers and care for them, forgive them? Does it mean we blow up abortion clinics and scream hateful things at women trying to get inside? No...but using our rights as citizens to support legislation that protects the weak and innocent is, I think, very important. Obviously, if one doesn't believe that an unborn baby is a human life, this becomes a non-issue. I do believe, absolutely, that human life is involved, so it's important to me to try to protect it. I'm not trying to enforce Christianity (hence don't pass laws regarding homosexuality, issues that involve free will for ALL the parties involved), but I do know that so much of the Bible speaks of defending the weak and helpless and, as such, my stand on whether or not abortion should be legal is...no, if voting in favor of the unborn children is the way that I can advocate for them then I will vote that way.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-14 04:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-14 04:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-14 04:38 pm (UTC)I'm not sure it is so obvious to me what Jesus would do about it. He was pretty hard on unrepentant sinners in the temple. I think if a woman came to him in repentence and broken over what she had done, he would, of course, forgive her and console her. I'm not sure I think He would have been standing outside an abortion clinic hugging the woman who came out after an abortion....
I guess I see Christ as being a little harder on sin than the way you put it here. Maybe I'm wrong though. I don't know. He just had some pretty harsh words for those who did not repent.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-14 04:42 pm (UTC)And currently, I'm feeling pretty condemned myself for sins I have not repented of and am struggling with a vison of God that frightenes me, so I'm not being all righteous here. I'm right there, standing with the ones I'm saying Christ would be saying harsh words to.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 12:25 am (UTC)---
Matthew 9:10-13 (New International Version)
10While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew's house, many tax collectors and "sinners" came and ate with him and his disciples. 11When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"
12On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'[a] For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
---
Loving, caring, and forgiving, not condemning.
I feel like He would be comforting someone who just went through something like that, if they wanted it. I feel like he would spend His time (and DID spend His time) teaching people how to respect life and love others, not creating more laws forbidding sinning. If someone doesn't follow God's law, what makes anyone think they will follow George Bush's law?
That being said, I am absolutely anti-abortion.
The reason I almost never get involved in abortion debates is that the root of all this comes to personhood. I don't think it's something people can agree on and without that, there's no way to come to a reasonable conclusion. So, mostly I just stay out of it.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-28 04:06 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-16 09:51 am (UTC)And I still totally know where I was coming from.
It's just a lot to think about for me right now, I guess, because I really can see every damned side of it, although I'll never agree with the one that thinks it isn't a life or something of value at risk.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-16 10:51 am (UTC)And I still totally know where I was coming from.
It's just a lot to think about for me right now, I guess, because I really can see every damned side of it, although I'll never agree with the one that thinks it isn't a life or something of value at risk.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-14 02:47 pm (UTC)Also, I have a problem with the fact that most of the people, the vast vast majority of people, who oppose abortion do so because of religious beliefs. And in this country, we're not supposed to have other people's religions imposed upon us. If I don't think a fetus is a life, if I don't think fetuses gain sentience or self-awareness until some point after birth, ...well, someone else's religion shouldn't be able to dictate what I do about my pregnancy.
Also, I have serious issues with illegalizing abortion because this is an issue that really, truly, only affects women. A man can walk away from a pregnancy without it affecting his life. No one ever has to know that he was pregnant and unmarried, he doesn't have to carry it around with him, he doens't have to give birth. Sure, the law says that he might have to write a check once a month and put it in the mail, but his life doesn't have to change. To illegalize abortion is to apply the law unequally. Forcing a woman to stay pregnant, when no man will ever be forced to do that, is. Well, I don't know, it's wrong.
And I'm really not trying to argue with you, because I totally respect your viewpoint, the fact that you're questioning, the fact that you can believe something is wrong and not judge the people who do it--I think that's beautiful, I think that's something we need more of in the world. But these are just some things I wanted to say, and goodness knows I cannot keep my mouth shut.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-14 05:03 pm (UTC)Do you understand what I'm saying, even if you don't agree? Making babies is what drives us, on subconscious and hormonal and physical levels, towards sex, all the time - it's proven over and over that humans look at each other and are attracted to partners that will be fertile and childbearing based on all kinds of appearance factors.
So it's hard for me to believe we should have any inherent right to have a lifetime of healthy, satisfying sex without the babies. I haven't even factored in my spiritual beliefs here, which are also pretty significant.
As far as men not being held responsible...well, they are legally responsible financially no matter what they want or don't want. A woman can choose to carry and bear a child the man wants aborted, and he has to support it - the courts will dock his wages, put out warrants to find him, all kinds of stuff. And he will know his kid is out there, and most likely they'll come find him at some point and have some big questions. I mean real scumbags can get around some of this with effort, but you know. Aside from that, though, I think our society is really really flawed, that people even think men can just walk away from a pregnancy. It's bullshit. To me saying women can, too, for fairness is just compounding that bullshit. And, how about how a woman can decide to abort a fetus a man is already attached to and excited about and in love with the idea of? He has no say. That's kind of crazy to me.
I'm not trying to argue with you either, I'm just giving you the devil's advocate standpoint that I automatically think about some of the stuff you said.
The bottom line to me when I'm talking about this, historically, has been that no matter what the woman wants or the man wants or whatever, whether she's been raped or whether she doesn't want the kid or she's 16 or childfree or whatever...that's not the baby's fault. I mean I understand some people believe it's not a life until some particular point - viability, or birth, or what have you. But I do. I believe it's an organism with all the DNA encoded for a color of hair and eyes, a personality and a sex - and science supports that. It has a heart that's beating by like 3 weeks gestation or something. I also believe it has a soul, which is not something provable of course...
You can't kill your born children regardless of whether they're at the core of your marital problems or the reason your career plans are coming to a halt or just because you feel like your identity has been usurped. For someone that believes life begins at conception, that's what we're talking about. It's just...not acceptable. It's insane to even talk about being ok. To crusade for the woman's rights is to deny that the new life inside has any, or even is a life...none of us has the right to kill any other person regardless of how hard they make things for us or what a burden they feel like - even if they are brand new.
But now, of course, I am questioning whether these "shoulds" and acceptables are really enforceable by law at all, or if they "should" be...for all the reasons listed in this entry. None of them make abortion seem any less tragic and awful, but. You know, I already said it all.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-14 06:49 pm (UTC)And I knew that the men part would be somewhat controversial, because obviously there are a lot of men to whom their children mean the world, and there are a lot of men who write child support checks every month for children they don't want. And...well, men do just walk away from pregnancies. Every day. I don't really understand where you're coming from when you say it's bullshit. It happens. Maybe they look back and feel some regret, but there are quite a few men who have never paid child support and never met their children.
And as for men who get excited about a pregnancy that ends in abortion, I just. It's not his body, and it's not his decision, and it's sad, yes, of course, it's terribly sad, but pregnancy and birth change a woman permanently, physically, and that's not something that a man will ever face.
And again, it seems so silly that you're even the person I'm talking to, because you've already said that you weren't sure that abortion should be illegal, and that's really everything my argument is based on--don't have a n abortion if you don't believe in them, but don't tell me that I can't have one because your spiritual beliefs say it's wrong.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-18 08:12 pm (UTC)So where does that leave those of us in the GLBT community?
no subject
Date: 2008-02-19 07:53 am (UTC)I have nothing against anyone gay, bi, or trans, by the way, I'm just talking in broad generalizations and I think the biggest estimate I've ever heard is that like 6% of the population is gay. I mean, a lesbian isn't usually going to want/need an abortion anyway.
I think sometimes people are GLBT because of past abuse, but not everyone. I read a study a long time ago that said that rats in very crowded environments were more likely to be homosexual, that theorized that maybe more people are gay now for the same reasons, especially in urban areas. It makes evolutionary sense, to protect resources... Of course, it could also just be that people feel safe coming out in urban areas or that gay people flock to urban areas to find like-minded individuals, too, not that cities encourage being born gay... Who knows.
Honestly one of the things I wonder about people who are gay is if they feel at odds with their body at times. For instance I feel like if I was a lesbian I'd be kind of pissed off that I have to get a period every month when I'm not ever going to get pregnant, you know, like why can't my uterus realize this whole PMS and cramps messy ass deal is at odds with my self concept? Or like, are my testicles really producing millions of sperm all the time, day in and day out, just for me to put into another man? It's kind of a weird perspective I guess.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-20 12:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-20 01:10 am (UTC)I don't know how to NOT speak in hetero-centric terms. We live in a hetero-centric world, and I think that's ok seeings how AT LEAST 96% of the world's population is hetero...I think we all have a duty to be considerate, kind and understanding of minorities of all types, ethnic or sexual or whatever, but I don't think everyone should be changing the way they see society at large for a very small percentage...I also speak with a neuro-typical bias even though there are tons of people out there who have autism or brain injuries or are bipolar or who knows what else. And I am very pro-tolerance with those issues, too. I just feel like while we should all love people individually, that doesn't change basic biology or what is "normal" in terms of "what most people are assuming based on their own lives"...I understand that I have to deal with being a minority in some ways, like that my large family will be a big deal and everyone will stare at us and ask us the same ridiculous questions everywhere we go (Are they all yours, are you done, are you catholic, you have your hands full don't you, don't you know what causes that, cheaper by the dozen eh) and will assume I'm harried and have no life and don't care about the environment, and who knows what. It isn't true and people who know me know it isn't true, but the average person out there is still going to stop and take note of a large family because they just aren't exposed. Which makes sense.
You know?
from eBirdide
Date: 2008-02-14 05:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-14 04:32 pm (UTC)My own experiences of the last few years have brought me closer to my sister's perspective. I'm sure you can understand that. I, too, am glad I'm not in charge because I don't know how you make these decisions. I have two children that were at very high risk for abortion, being "unwanted" pregnancies. I have an aunt that was the "product" of rape. Maybe i just don't understand the other side well enough, but I don't think I could ever come completely around to the point of view that says "Okay, we can't make abortion illegal, because people will do it anyway, so we need to make sure it is safe for them to do it." When I stop for two seconds and start thinking about what I truly believe abortion is and does...I get physically ill. Literally. My whole body starts to shake.
We use graphic pictures of violenced done in Iraq, in Vietnam, done to ANIMALS in the name of science or big food business, to make people gasp in horror and fight to make those things stop. Yet when people use graphic photos of what abortion actually looks like...people gasp in horror and say "how dare you show me that and MAKE ME THINK!" I think there is a bad, bad double standard there. How can we care more for how an animal meant to be eaten by us is treated than how an unborn child is treated?!
I'm getting all worked up here. Suffice it to say, I see where your going with the very fine line between giving a fetus rights that supersede parenting rights and protecting that fetus. I just guess I think we are called by God to walk that line. I think there are lots of gray areas. To me this is just not one of them.
I will vote for Obama if given the choice of him or McCain. But I won't do it with a "clear concience."
no subject
Date: 2008-02-14 04:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-14 05:14 pm (UTC)I really think what bothers me most is not that abortion is available, but that it is glossed over. People think doing ultrasounds so people can see the fetus is cruel. Cruel? It's just facts! I was shown photographs of the sponge and my dead intestines out on the table, after my surgery last fall. I remember when 3D ultrasound came out I had friends that said, Oh man this is going to make it harder for people to get abortions. I was aghast, they actually seemed to think it was wrong to let the general public see that a 12 week fetus has facial features. Why is it that we're supposed to KNOW every detail of any other "procedure" we have done, but turn our heads from what an abortion really is? Come on. I hate that our society acts like you can "get unpregnant". You can't get unpregnant. You can kill the fetus and dispose of it and try to move on as your body heals. But there's no "Unpregnant" button :/
What got me when I went to an abortion clinic was, there was a big armored truck parked next to it that said "biohazardous waste". I still feel nauseus when I remember it.
I am sure my thoughts on all of this will continue to evolve. For now my thoughts are that this might be just one more thing on a long, long list of horrible things that parents can do with the lives entrusted to them, and nobody outside of that circle can really stop. Or even fully understand from the perspective in the circle (except God).
no subject
Date: 2008-02-17 10:32 pm (UTC)Now I'm pretty much in the same place that you are.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-14 04:55 pm (UTC)This is a huge moral struggle for me, and I think about it literally every day. Overall, I'm pro-prevention. But when women are desperate with unwanted pregnancies, I don't have a clear mind about what laws should be put in place. It's so tough. I just don't know. I should note that I do believe in choice for women whose lives are truly at extreme risk from their pregnancies (including severe mental illness with the likes of suicidality.)
from eBirdie
Date: 2008-02-14 05:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-14 09:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-14 09:26 pm (UTC)At the same time, I'm eating an egg right now for breakfast. Taking away an unborn baby from something, before it has the chance to grow, isn't that a little like abortion? Why do we count and animals don't? Clearly it's because of higher brain functions, sentience, etc - so when do babies in uteruo count? When do fetuses develop sentience and higher brain functions within the womb, and when is the point that they then 'count' as better than the eggs I'm eating.
All of this sounds really cold, I know. I'm just thinking out loud as I'm stuck by how late I'm eating breakfast today.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 03:11 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 03:39 am (UTC)However, I had a point, damnit!
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 03:57 am (UTC)"scrambled fetus"
"poached fetus on rye toast"
"Ma'am, what would you like to drink with your fetus today?"
"Can I have a sunny-side-up fetus on the side, please? And hold the bacon."
Okay fine, maybe "embryo" would be more accurate, but I like it my way.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 04:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 04:12 am (UTC)*recoils in horror*
Tina, I am so sorry...
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 05:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-16 05:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 01:42 am (UTC)-Paige
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 04:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 04:27 am (UTC)It is good to see you here!
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 04:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 04:50 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 04:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 07:14 pm (UTC)i'll be starting another blog eventually. i'll comment on your blog when I do.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 03:55 am (UTC)I seriously have the exact same opinion. hahaha.
Good luck with the sick guys :(
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 09:34 am (UTC)sure, we have to judge some men, in some ways through the law of the land in order to prevent future crimes and misdeeds and that is different than having this subconscious (and sometimes very conscious) air about us that we are somehow superior or "right" when others are "wrong" - it is not for us to make those kinds of determinations.
for me, not being a christian, but having grappled with the catholic upbrining and lack of certainty in my path for many, many years within a christian framework means i've put a lot of thought into this. i think when we reach this understanding that god's law is not the same thing as man's law (turning the other cheek vs. stoning/jailing/corporal punishment) we can find how to be truly compassionate to fellow human beings in most situations. i most, because, like i'm having a really hard time finding compassion for the shooter responsible for the deaths in illinois yesterday. but ... before i go further off-topic, i think i'll just go study now.
Obama!
Date: 2008-02-17 07:57 pm (UTC)i checked out his website, he has some of his videos in Closed Captioning, so that people with hearing loss can access them too. I really appreciated that. Hillary's website doesn't offer that.. I hope he wins ! :)
My mom named her recent baby goat addition to her farm ... "OBaaaaaaaaaaaaMa"
no subject
Date: 2008-02-28 04:24 am (UTC)I did appreciate the honesty of this post and how you laid out your thought processes.