Something I really hate, that actually makes me super angry.

[altarflame]

Other peoples' dogs roaming loose around the neighborhood.

I cannot even express the way this drives me nuts.

And I am not even talking about our dead chickens, because I do understand you are always taking that risk in one way or another when you choose to keep a prey animal in your yard. We'll secure them better next time.

BUT.

The other evening on our bike ride, Aaron and I had two different LARGE dogs chase us. He almost fell off and got extremely freaked out, both times. I had Elise on the back of my bike and didn't even feel certain I could stop and help him because this giant dog is going nuts and she was shrieking with fear. He keeps his cool pretty well - if it had been Ananda or Isaac it would have been a disaster.

These aren't strays. They're peoples' pets that are allowed to dig under the fence, or sit on the porch until an unsuspecting pedestrian goes by, or whatever. There are already two block long stretches we always avoid because we know there are mean, unattended dogs on them, but apparently now there are more. Even if the dogs aren't truy viscious, barking like mad while nipping at my kids' heels, making him swerve all over the road and become totally distracted from general traffic safety, IS NOT OK. I know of at least two dog owners around here who make a freaking habit of coming out when they hear the ferocious barking from inside, yelling "Dog's name! HEY GET BACK HERE!!!" and then a weak "Sorry". But then they go back in AND THE DOG STAYS OUTSIDE, UNRESTRAINED, until the next person comes along.

Now my across the street neighbors. Who are nice people, and our kids play together, they've given us tomatoes out of their garden and we baked extra cupcakes for them, yada yada. They got a second dog. The old dog was under their fence and in our yard pretty regularly but he was pretty innocent and quiet and very small, and ran when he saw us so I only really mentioned it to them once. But they've added a hyper german shepard puppy who's nearly grown but still acts like a maniacal puppy. Who came under the fence and killed our chickens, and has been back under the fence twice.

Granted we have been trying to figure out a good non-relationship-shattering way to tell them they have to do something, so we haven't informed them of this yet. Partially because summer activities have thrown our schedules so far out of sync that we're rarely home at the same time anymore.

But Grant has found dig marks from the dog coming BACK IN under the privacy fence in the back since. And I found POOP in our side yard, where the kids play. And this morning while I was trying to get my kids out the door to VBS, the stupid thing was - playfully, no barking - jumping all over the opening door, and any person who came out a little, REFUSING to get back. Elise is really freaked by big dogs, Isaac is nervous about them, Ananda USED to have a major phobia that kind of resurfaces in these instances. I was eventually, after yelling at it, and swatting at it, KICKING this dog with my baby on my hip and it was still constantly leaping at me on my front porch as if it were a game. The whole way to VBS and back Jake and Elise were hoping the dog wasn't still in our yard when we got home...but of course it was. So I had to carry Elise in again. Keeping in mind I am never supposed to lift Elise at all because of herniation and entrapment and how usually she climbs in and out of her carseat herself.

I just feel so pissed off about how this is totally socially acceptable around here. Part of me really, really wants to call animal control, but I would never want anyone to call people - animal, child or whatever kind of people - on me, especially without at least attempting a conversation first.

So I have to watch for them to be home and try to have a really awkward conversation now. It's hard because I know they've moved boards around and even gotten some fill, to ATTEMPT to keep the dogs in, and they do put them back in whenever they're home/awake. But it is obviously not good enough and I don't know how to tell them they need to leash them or put up hot wire or stick them in the house more or, I don't even know what. I'm not really in the habit of issuing neighbors ultimatums.

Blah.

Comments

[http://users.livejournal.com/_delphiki_/]

I am not a dog expert by any stretch of the imagination but we do have 2 big dogs and one little dog. One big dog came with my SO and he can't walk her on a leash but I can. It's about pack leadership.

Little children are notorious at being horrible pack leaders, therefore- they are more likely to miss a change in a dog's demeanor that indicates something is wrong. I think you are 100% justified in saying something. Even something like "Child (whichever) is scared of dogs. We had to walk out to the car through your dog. How can we fix this?"

People being irresponsible with their dogs INFURIATES me. Even a 5 lbs dog can cause serious damage. UGH!

Cats are easier.

[altarflame.livejournal.com]

The kid being scared is huge. But I also think the poop in our yard, the dogs' continuing presence in our yard, the digging under OUR fence (especially when we are getting new chickens - they are cooped at night but roam the backyard during the day) are big issues.

However, it's hard to say ALL that without sounding like a serious bitch. I think I'm going to have to be at my disclaimer-ridden, self-depracating, diplomatic best :p

[moobabe.livejournal.com]

I hate hate hate this also. Of the maybe five houses closest to me, three families have dogs, and only one of them is responsible about their dog. Hannah has gotten scared on multiple occasions by dogs running at her and barking, but the neighbors don't give a crap. And then there's when the dog just sprawls in the middle of the road and doesn't move, no matter how often you honk at them. ARGH.

This is totally one of my buttons.

[altarflame.livejournal.com]

Yeah, just now walking back from the grocery store, the old lady across the intersection diagonally was having to shoo the across-the-street neighbors' dogs away and move her cans around because they were getting in her garbage. Argh is right.

[aelf.livejournal.com]

How scary. :/ I hope you can come to some resolution. It took several escapes for us to shore up every escape hole in our backyard when our dog was a puppy.

[altarflame.livejournal.com]

You sound like you make sense! I do understand that sort of thing...but I mean my neighbors' older dog is, like, 10 years old. And has just always constantly gotten out. That one like I said IS relatively harmless - although it had pooped over here, which I don't appreciate - but the new one is making me nervous about what the future holds :/

My neighbors really are nice enough people, though, and I am hoping that, like the anonymous person said, they have no idea any of this is going on.

that sounds stressful!

[(Anonymous)]

i bet (and really, really hope) they have no idea this is happening, so a general conversation about their dog and your yard might be all they need to swing into gear and take care of this.

once you have the initial conversation, it's their job to rememdy the problem. if they don't, that's when you need to worry about the next steps. right now, all you can do is make them aware.

Re: that sounds stressful!

[altarflame.livejournal.com]

They most definitely know their dogs are getting out constantly, because they have to put them back in the yard basically every single time they get up in the morning or come back from anywhere, usually with some yelling and chasing.

But yeah, I'm not sure they're aware of the inconveniences their dogs are causing WHILE out. Anytime they arrive or open the front door the dogs are swarming them instantly, so they probably don't really witness them being off of their own property.

[psyko-kitty.livejournal.com]

Tina, I totally feel you on this. My neighbor's dog actually managed to get _into_ my house where it proceeded to dive under a bed, pull out my cat, and kill her right in front of my then 2 1/2 year old. It was awful. The owners failed to secure the dog after that and eventually I was able to get animal control out here fast enough to take it away. It was a total nightmare.

[altarflame.livejournal.com]

OH MY GOSH. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would never try to ENFORCE this, because I am too libertarian and equal-rights minded. But I am starting to really be of the OPINION that large dogs - excepting like truly gentle, lazy breeds and service dogs - just don't have any place in the suburbs. People just don't have enough area for them to roam and so they end up infringing on other peoples' rights like crazy. Nobody but my mother would try to keep german shepards or doberman pinchers or whatever in apartments, so what is the difference really with homes under 3000 square feet that have yards under a half acre? With flimsy chain link fences that have holes underneath?

That really does sound like a nightmare for you guys. I am so, so sorry your family had to deal with it. I really hope you immediately called the police, but I would also totally understand if that was the last thing on your mind at the time.

[ariellejuliana.livejournal.com]

This would make me CRAZY! I am not at all afraid of dogs I know, bigger the better, but I get very nervous around dogs I don't know. Dogs can be very dangerous. I would never be comfortable with strange dogs around my children. I was out walking my black lab in our neighborhood once when a rottweiller (sp?) came out and actually attacked her. I was screaming and kicking the dog, trying to get her off my dog, as he had his mouth around her neck. I finally ran off with my dog, and the attacker didn't follow for long. A man who had apparently heard me yelling at the dog came to my door a half hour later with a petition to ask me to sign. Apparently this dog has attacked so many dogs and people, the neighbors were trying to get the dog either removed or restrained.

I am totally with you when it comes to "reporting" people to authorities - I would be VERY angry if someone reported me regarding parenting, and not too happy if someone reported my loud but harmless dog without telling me first. I would give these people one chance - tell them that you need them to do something about their dogs immediately. Next time call animal control.

[altarflame.livejournal.com]

I wish I had your kind of neighbors. I can't imagine my neighborhood rallying that way...it's more like I'm the odd one out :/

For instance, the two block long stretches I avoid...they usually feature the dog owner's sitting on the porch or yard line casually talking with people next door, and them all of them look really annoyed when I, someone they don't know from Adam, come by and rile the dog up. That is the impression I'm getting, anyway.

But I also see a lot of walkers and bike riders throughout the day and neighborhood. So I don't know.

[zeldazonk.livejournal.com]

Wait----they killed your chickens???


Dogs can be dangerous. Call as much as you want. It's at least nicer than what I would do, which was to tell your neighbors if a stray gets into your yard/property again, you'll keep it and take it to the pound yourself.

[altarflame.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I posted about it in a previous entry.

I would probably call if we had talked about this and it continued. But they don't yet know their dog killed my chickens. Or is digging under our fence. Or scaring my kids. Etc.

There is nothing that bothers me more than people who call government agencies about the least little thing. Like I knew someone who's toddlers got outside while she was sleeping very early in the day, and were playing in the front yard, and some busybody called the police. Rather than, you know, KNOCKING ON THE FRONT DOOR or asking the kids where their parents were or any other normal human compassionate response.

I don't know. I would just rather give them the opportunity to be good neighbors. I don't even think I'm actually supposed to have chickens in this zone at all, but tons of people around here do which I think is fine. You know?

[noelove.livejournal.com]

In the time it took you to write this to us, you could have crafted a really awesome letter to your neighbors!

Writing a letter is a great way to get someone to listen to everything you have to say without interuption. Plus you can add that with your wonky summer schedule and 5 children that you have very little time to sit down and talk with them about it but really want to stress the importance of them doing something.

You can then, make flyers and tape them around your neighborhood. Seriously.

I am so blessed because we don't have shit like that here. people are really good about their dogs and such and the boys have never had a bad run in with dogs. It makes me sad that your kids are scared, that's not freaking cool. Dogs are such great animals and it sucks that some idiot owners have to ruin that.

[altarflame.livejournal.com]

If possible, I would like to talk to them face to face. I know what you mean about letters, but these are friendly redneck-y type people who I used to talk to face to face on the daily, and I really think just the fact that I wrote them a letter instead of just coming and saying something would strike them as a serious bit of hostility.

If they aren't home when I am today or tomorrow, I will though, with the schedules as a hopefully justifying reason to be presenting as some formal weird thing.

The flyers around the neighborhood might be a great idea...hmmm.

[idiolecto.livejournal.com]

Oh! That makes me sad for you, your kids AND the dogs. Why aren't the owners afraid that their dogs will get hit by a car, killed by another animal or even dognapped???

I have no advice about the random people whose dogs you encounter (except I once bought my husband some doggy mace for a wild pack who chased regularly chased him on his bike), but maybe you could talk to the nice neighbors in a friendly way (with treats perhaps) and let them know about the situation. It's not as though you're making an unreasonable request, after all -- their dogs are scaring your kids and destroying your property, and I'll bet they'll be embarrassed and apologetic. I think leaving notes or calling animal control without ever talking to them would be passive aggressive. :)

[(Anonymous)]

Tina, don't enable the neighbors to be bad pet owners. The dogs should be crated when they are home alone, in the house where it is cool. That puppy is lonely, looking for playmates. You don't want a big dog or you would have one. Let the convo be awkward for the neighbors, not you. I don't think that puppy will ever stop trying to get the chickens now that is has killed once. I have three dogs that are never off the leash unless they are in their fenced exercise area. My family cares so much for our pets we would never let them roam the neighborhood. Staking a dog out on a chain is considered inhumane treatment. The humane society will take a dog chained in a yard especially if there isn't water available. I would really encourage the neighbors to keep the dogs inside the garage when they aren't home.

[altarflame.livejournal.com]

Wouldn't "enabling" them mean, like, I am buying the dog food they can't afford, or getting the vet care they neglect or helping to hide the dog when Animal Control happens to be rolling through? I don't think I'm enabling anything by simply failing to stop someone else's pet ownership, I mean come on.

Anyway...I know this crate thing is really popular nowadays, but to me, it seems awfully cruel to leave a dog in a crate inside all day long while you're at work. I'm not at all opposed to them being out in THEIR OWN yard...I just want the yard to be secured. I mean, there is shade, there is water, and I cannot imagine it's natural for dogs to be in air conditioning anyway. I didn't know about the chained in a yard being bad thing - I don't really know a lot about dog ownership overall, to be honest. What is so bad about that? I am asking out of real curiosity because I sort of don't get it. I mean obviously if there wasn't water available like you were saying, but assuming there is, what is the issue there?

Garages in south Florida are DANGEROUSLY hot, children die in them...that would definitely not be an option.

[-evalution.livejournal.com]

ugh. irresponsible dog owners drive me nuts. we actually have neighbors very similar in practice living across the street. they have this awful large dog, incredibly rowdy and hyper, and he was constantly getting out and just running all over the neighborhood. one day, i was home with the kids and heard an awful snarling sound from our side yard. the dog had something pinned up against the fence. when i went out, i scared him off and whatever he had been attacking ran into the bushes. of course it was my cat. when the cat came dragging up to the back door, i became furious and immediately went over to speak to them about it. the fact that i was slightly hysterical about the cat's uncertain fate may have helped my case, as did the fact that they were then presented with a nearly $400 vet bill. we were both as nice as we could be, and they were extremely apologetic. thankfully, my cat is okay, and guess what? since paying that huge amount for the emergency vet, i have not seen their dog out unleashed ONCE. sometimes a hit in the pocketbook might be what it takes to have someone sit up and take notice.

[theneolistickid.livejournal.com]

I am seriously fuming right now. Let's not forgot some un-contained dogs killed SEBASTIAN. You know I'm not one to be mean to any creature (except maybe mosquitoes), but protecting my family could potentially make me do crazy things.

GRRRR...

It's a good thing I don't own a gun. BUT, I might have to go Legolas on his ass.

[altarflame.livejournal.com]

I talked to Brett Sr, I forget his name, and he was really ashamed and horrified about his dog getting in our yard at all, and the brother or whoever who is living over there was all "See, I'm telling you man..." like that new dog is out of control. Mr Brett actually showed me where they've poured concrete but there's a spot they don't know what to do with. They were still puzzling at it and moving stuff around back there when we left for a walk, so I think they will really make an effort to keep him in. I might try to catch the wife sometime, too, though, just because I think she's more reliable for this sort of thing...

The Sebastian thing, HOLY SHIT it makes me so much more mad to think about that.

The ones that really make me mad now are actually not Brett's dogs, it's that stupid ass german shepard on the next block who got your elbow the one time, and in just the opposite direction on the next block, this old dog who I don't think is mean like that, but chases bikes bigtime. WTF.

[oscariswilde.livejournal.com]

I hate when people do that. I tend to notify them of the issue first, if they don't attempt to rectify it I'll chain up the animal when it comes into my yard the next time and have the pound pick it up. In our area at least each time they pick it up from the pound the fee goes up. Usually once or twice and they figure out how to either contain the animal properly or they don't go pick it up.

[altarflame.livejournal.com]

Hey can you tell me the address to email the receipt to? I'll do it tonight, sorry I've slacked on that.

[babyslime.livejournal.com]

That is not, not, not fucking cool. I was attacked twice by dogs that roamed like this. I watched my best friend's dog get ripped to shreds and the carcass dragged down the road by a dog like that.

Where I grew up, it was a farming community, and dogs off leashes were illegal and punishable by having your dog taken away because of the damage it did to farmlands and livestock (including chickens).
Racoons getting in? Okay, shit happens and you should have taken percautions.
Your neighbor's pets killing your chickens? Not fucking cool.

[altarflame.livejournal.com]

Honestly,the more I've thought about that part of this (the chickens) the more totally unacceptable it seems.

I did go and talk to the neighbor that owns that dog, today. And he seemed very embarrassed and apologetic and like it will not happen again (the dog being in our yard at all). So we'll see, I guess.

I have been so angry about dogs off and on all day. I wish there were an easier way to deal with the viscious, bike chasing dogs. They are not so close to home, I don't know their owners, and their owners do not act nice or embarassed or apologetic at all, when they SEE their dogs trying to attack people.

It really does boggle my mind how common and dealt with this is in my area.

[gypsymommy.livejournal.com]

Oh my! It's not right that your children should live in fear because of these dogs. You should be able to get out to your car without having to fight.
A lot of people here don't leash their dogs either, and I am the magnet for them. I've had a few dogs run into my house as soon as I open the door. My son is scared of dogs, and my husband and I are allergic. I am always having to clean poop up in my yard.
I don't understand why people would leave their dogs out for hours at a time during the day, especially in Florida, during the summer. It gets hot. I know that my mother in law's dogs can't tolerate the heat well during the summer.
I do hope that you're able to talk to the neighbors soon about the situation, and I hope that it goes well. I am sure that they don't know just how bad it is, and hopefully they will remedy the situation.

[altarflame.livejournal.com]

I did talk to our immediate neighbors and they did seem very surprised, and sorry, and like they are taking action now.

I don't know what to do about other random dogs we encounter out on bike rides and things. ARGH I really, really hate this crap. $%&@!

It is a sore spot for me for years and years now, because of my mother's insanely wild and untrained german shepards, kept in apartments and terrorizing my kids on visits. And neighbors on a regular basis. (UIAJREkjfdsklng;aweiorq[2weo'q[adc I don't even have words about it.

[neurotic-orchid.livejournal.com]

I don't understand dog owners who let their dogs roam free. It just makes no sense to me. We have 3 dogs--if one gets free (most likely the mischievous 8 month old one...)--we are very embarrassed and are out chasing her. That's just dangerous and very insensitive pet ownership.

[mercyorbemoaned.livejournal.com]

I was just thinking today how goofy it is that people are simultaneously totally crazy about things like bike helmets and lead exposure, but fine with GIANT DOGS running all over the place.

[miniaturize.livejournal.com]

I say call the SPCA (or whichever type of animal protection services are in your area). It's negligent to both neighbors and the pets and if they can't control their pets they shouldn't have pets.

We have had the same problem on our block for some time now. We nearly ran over a pug a couple months back. Same family also let their kids run around in the street too..

[miniaturize.livejournal.com]

Also, do you mind if I add you? I found you while searching "anti-nestle" and your interests overall are pretty neat :) I love seeing large families, too!