(no subject)
Aug. 30th, 2006 02:41 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
altarflameI'm 8 weeks pregnant. EIGHT WEEKS, already - how did that happen? Part of it is the two week jump that happens without time passing, because it's just how gestational age is measured. But other than that, it's been five weeks since I found out? Really really? If it all passes this quickly...whoa.
We told Grant Sr that I'm pregnant a few days ago. He was very "Oh my God, son" - he doesn't seem to care as it relates to him, I think he is just one of these people who can't fathom why anyone would want a big family. Like, he sees having a baby as "Restarting that 18 year clock". *shrug* I think that financially he sees it about the same as we do - it's not really that big of a difference, if we have four or five little kids, money wise. I'm sure it helps that he sees Grant making big strides with the business...he's recently paid off one of the corporate credit cards and significantly paid down the other (they are in both of their names, jointly, so the large balance effects everyones credit), and bought G Sr lunch, and little things like that. He's getting ready to hire my sister to do his billing and taxes, as well as possibly some other things.
You know we were at the PATH end of year party a few months back and there was a woman with 14 kids there. She pulls up wherever they go in this church bus thing, and all these teenagers and preteens hop out of the sides and start unbuckling carseats. And it's funny because they make me smile; I mean all 14 of these kids are happy seeming, healthy, polite, and helping out, including the twin babies (aside from the helping part). And she is not Michelle Duggar with a giant scary mullet either, she's put together and seems really calm. I'm not sure if I could handle that many kids or not, but I don't think "What the hell is the matter with that woman?!" or walk up to her and say "Are they all yours?!" - which is the kind of reaction I'm already getting left and right with my four. We sat on our picnic blanket a little ways away from them and Grant actually got all wistful, saying "I want that so much." I gave him a little raised eyebrow, but I also know what he means. If I come home and tell Grant Sr about that woman, he goes gape eyed and exclaims, "You've gotta be kidding me!" as if it were disgusting.
Speaking of which; I decided to go all masochistic and soft in the head, and joined an ivillage expecting club (parentsplace, whatever you wanna call it). I...well...I really like it :x There is this huge thread going of women expecting baby #4 or more, another about women who are still nursing another child through this pregnancy, and someone asking for newborn cloth diaper advice! There are plenty of newbies asking confused questions about lunch meat and getting an ultrasound every week, too, but nobody is ANTI-natural parenting - two different people congratulated me on planning a UC, one with links to her own UC stories! It is at WORST a nice across the board mix. I bring it up because one woman jumped into the "big family" thread to say she really can't believe all of us are just so happy to be having so many kids when the world is already overpopulated, we're pushing out other species, people are starving, etc etc. I gave her my very honest response to that and thought I would repost it here,
I understand what you are saying completely, and have thought about this a lot. These are the things that make me feel ok about having a big family in our current world:
-Almost all industrialized nations are becoming "top heavy" as the populations age, such that there are not enough youth replacing the aging/dying to do the hard labor, make the money to fuel the economy, or support programs like social security. Australia, New Zealand and Russia all have programs urging people to move there and incentive packages for their current citizens to have more babies, because the levels of births have just dropped off to such an extent that they're in a crisis. The United States' indigenous population is also shrinking; but we get enough immigrants that it is not a noticeable issue here. That is the same in Canada.
-The majority of the world wide population is in Africa...where everyone is dying of HIV, starvation, malaria, a lack of clean water, and violence. This pains me and makes me sad whenever I learn more, and we try to give however we can. It also reassures me that at the rate that people there are dying (I think the life expectancy on the whole continent has now dropped to 28?), and with the bulk of the numbers that they make up...we don't have that much to worry about :/
-And, finally, I think HOW you do it makes a huge difference. I have four children, but we don't use disposable diapers at all, or wipes. I use cloth towels, hand towels, dish rags etc for all possible cleaning and spills. We buy minimal paper towels and no napkins, and never ever use paper plates or cutlery (not even at birthday parties). We recycle maniacally, share one vehicle as a family and walk when possible. I go very out of my way and out of my budget to buy organic produce and free range meats, as well as almost no processed or packaged foods, and we boycott irresponsible companies, etc. We hand things down. We homeschool so we aren't even clogging up the school system! It's hard for me to imagine it not being a GOOD THING, to raise as many globally conscious, earth friendly children as possible. These kids are out and around the neighborhood packing up trash and saving their change to adopt a manatee. I thought about it once and I really believe we are hurting the planet less - all 6 of us - than the average big city bachelor is.
I know some people just honestly feel that it's wrong to keep having "your own" kids when their are so many orphans out there, and we do plan to adopt one day. But adopting when you're in a house-sharing situation, surviving on a low income, is very hard to do. And part of my naturalist (and christian) outlook is being very against artificial birth control.
I for one have been super super happy to see all the big families on this board! While I respect your point of view, I feel that the selfishness purpetuated in our current society is a bigger problem than overpopulation (like, there IS enough for everyone, we just don't put priority on distributing it to everyone) - and I believe that big families help to raise responsible and less selfish individuals (being a part of something, sharing from a young age, everyone pitching in).
Just my .02
Tina
Mom to Annie, Aaron, Isaac, Jake and one more due 4/17
I thought about posting it in Booju_mooju, but I don't want to listen to a bunch of people accuse me of being glad Africans are dying off so that my kids can grow up with white privilege, or whatever other stupid ass nonsense they would pick out of it.
Today has not been so great. Shutters on the windows, nobody allowed to go outside, all the stuff that's normally in the yards and on the patio and porch clogging up the inside...and it hasn't even really rained. I've also been exceedingly nauseus. I spent an extended period of time rolling around in my bed playing with Isaac and Jake, and that was a lot of fun. They are starting to really play together well and seek each other out, which makes me happy. I also finished reading The Hundred Dresses with Ananda and did another Rowan of Rin chapter with Aaron. By and large though it's been a lot of sluggish unmotivated laying about. UGH, I hate "Hurricane Days", and boy do they seem pointless when there is not even a hurricane to coincide.
Every morning Isaac gets in our bed, nurses and hangs out. He usually dozes off. Sometimes everyone sleeps together for awhile, if he gets in there early enough. This morning when I got up, he and Jake were looking so adorable that I ran for the camera. But as soon as I turned on the lamp, Jake opened his eyes.
The next millisecond, he was flipped over and sitting up with a dazed smile.
We told Grant Sr that I'm pregnant a few days ago. He was very "Oh my God, son" - he doesn't seem to care as it relates to him, I think he is just one of these people who can't fathom why anyone would want a big family. Like, he sees having a baby as "Restarting that 18 year clock". *shrug* I think that financially he sees it about the same as we do - it's not really that big of a difference, if we have four or five little kids, money wise. I'm sure it helps that he sees Grant making big strides with the business...he's recently paid off one of the corporate credit cards and significantly paid down the other (they are in both of their names, jointly, so the large balance effects everyones credit), and bought G Sr lunch, and little things like that. He's getting ready to hire my sister to do his billing and taxes, as well as possibly some other things.
You know we were at the PATH end of year party a few months back and there was a woman with 14 kids there. She pulls up wherever they go in this church bus thing, and all these teenagers and preteens hop out of the sides and start unbuckling carseats. And it's funny because they make me smile; I mean all 14 of these kids are happy seeming, healthy, polite, and helping out, including the twin babies (aside from the helping part). And she is not Michelle Duggar with a giant scary mullet either, she's put together and seems really calm. I'm not sure if I could handle that many kids or not, but I don't think "What the hell is the matter with that woman?!" or walk up to her and say "Are they all yours?!" - which is the kind of reaction I'm already getting left and right with my four. We sat on our picnic blanket a little ways away from them and Grant actually got all wistful, saying "I want that so much." I gave him a little raised eyebrow, but I also know what he means. If I come home and tell Grant Sr about that woman, he goes gape eyed and exclaims, "You've gotta be kidding me!" as if it were disgusting.
Speaking of which; I decided to go all masochistic and soft in the head, and joined an ivillage expecting club (parentsplace, whatever you wanna call it). I...well...I really like it :x There is this huge thread going of women expecting baby #4 or more, another about women who are still nursing another child through this pregnancy, and someone asking for newborn cloth diaper advice! There are plenty of newbies asking confused questions about lunch meat and getting an ultrasound every week, too, but nobody is ANTI-natural parenting - two different people congratulated me on planning a UC, one with links to her own UC stories! It is at WORST a nice across the board mix. I bring it up because one woman jumped into the "big family" thread to say she really can't believe all of us are just so happy to be having so many kids when the world is already overpopulated, we're pushing out other species, people are starving, etc etc. I gave her my very honest response to that and thought I would repost it here,
I understand what you are saying completely, and have thought about this a lot. These are the things that make me feel ok about having a big family in our current world:
-Almost all industrialized nations are becoming "top heavy" as the populations age, such that there are not enough youth replacing the aging/dying to do the hard labor, make the money to fuel the economy, or support programs like social security. Australia, New Zealand and Russia all have programs urging people to move there and incentive packages for their current citizens to have more babies, because the levels of births have just dropped off to such an extent that they're in a crisis. The United States' indigenous population is also shrinking; but we get enough immigrants that it is not a noticeable issue here. That is the same in Canada.
-The majority of the world wide population is in Africa...where everyone is dying of HIV, starvation, malaria, a lack of clean water, and violence. This pains me and makes me sad whenever I learn more, and we try to give however we can. It also reassures me that at the rate that people there are dying (I think the life expectancy on the whole continent has now dropped to 28?), and with the bulk of the numbers that they make up...we don't have that much to worry about :/
-And, finally, I think HOW you do it makes a huge difference. I have four children, but we don't use disposable diapers at all, or wipes. I use cloth towels, hand towels, dish rags etc for all possible cleaning and spills. We buy minimal paper towels and no napkins, and never ever use paper plates or cutlery (not even at birthday parties). We recycle maniacally, share one vehicle as a family and walk when possible. I go very out of my way and out of my budget to buy organic produce and free range meats, as well as almost no processed or packaged foods, and we boycott irresponsible companies, etc. We hand things down. We homeschool so we aren't even clogging up the school system! It's hard for me to imagine it not being a GOOD THING, to raise as many globally conscious, earth friendly children as possible. These kids are out and around the neighborhood packing up trash and saving their change to adopt a manatee. I thought about it once and I really believe we are hurting the planet less - all 6 of us - than the average big city bachelor is.
I know some people just honestly feel that it's wrong to keep having "your own" kids when their are so many orphans out there, and we do plan to adopt one day. But adopting when you're in a house-sharing situation, surviving on a low income, is very hard to do. And part of my naturalist (and christian) outlook is being very against artificial birth control.
I for one have been super super happy to see all the big families on this board! While I respect your point of view, I feel that the selfishness purpetuated in our current society is a bigger problem than overpopulation (like, there IS enough for everyone, we just don't put priority on distributing it to everyone) - and I believe that big families help to raise responsible and less selfish individuals (being a part of something, sharing from a young age, everyone pitching in).
Just my .02
Tina
Mom to Annie, Aaron, Isaac, Jake and one more due 4/17
I thought about posting it in Booju_mooju, but I don't want to listen to a bunch of people accuse me of being glad Africans are dying off so that my kids can grow up with white privilege, or whatever other stupid ass nonsense they would pick out of it.
Today has not been so great. Shutters on the windows, nobody allowed to go outside, all the stuff that's normally in the yards and on the patio and porch clogging up the inside...and it hasn't even really rained. I've also been exceedingly nauseus. I spent an extended period of time rolling around in my bed playing with Isaac and Jake, and that was a lot of fun. They are starting to really play together well and seek each other out, which makes me happy. I also finished reading The Hundred Dresses with Ananda and did another Rowan of Rin chapter with Aaron. By and large though it's been a lot of sluggish unmotivated laying about. UGH, I hate "Hurricane Days", and boy do they seem pointless when there is not even a hurricane to coincide.
Every morning Isaac gets in our bed, nurses and hangs out. He usually dozes off. Sometimes everyone sleeps together for awhile, if he gets in there early enough. This morning when I got up, he and Jake were looking so adorable that I ran for the camera. But as soon as I turned on the lamp, Jake opened his eyes.
The next millisecond, he was flipped over and sitting up with a dazed smile.
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(delurking)
Date: 2006-08-30 07:11 am (UTC)Re: (delurking)
Date: 2006-08-30 08:13 am (UTC)I'm glad I'm not the only one who can say "a child is a blessing" without a grimace and a sigh :p
no subject
Date: 2006-08-30 07:13 am (UTC)you are a gazillion times more articulate than i could ever be.
my usual response is to roll my eyes and groan to those types of comments.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-30 08:17 am (UTC)Anyway, no, no response yet. I do hope she says something, but I am not at all expecting (or wanting) drama. That board is no booju, and I have to admit I'm glad of that.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-30 08:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-08-30 05:41 pm (UTC)Of course, non-renewable resources are a problem that need to be addressed, but it isn't the large families that are making the biggest footprint in that regard.
What bugs me is that people act like a suburban mom with a lot of kids is the enemy of the environmental movement, but the real enemy is Big Business. The collective generational footprint of one big family is a million times smaller than that of some businesses and individuals, even if they do things like use paper towels and disposies, and drive a 15 passanger van.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-30 01:23 pm (UTC)It's also funny how no one accuses other cultures of the same thing, like Musilms who don't use birth control are cool but Catholics who do the same are "contributing to the demise of the world." Um, yeah. Now I'm a racist and you're happy for all those dying Africans. Damn fundies!
It's a shame that "big families" are so out these days because I'm sure it makes for less selfish people on average, since the kids have to learn to get along and share more.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-30 04:03 pm (UTC)also, i love your big family too. hope you all find stuff to keep you entertained while being on lockdown.
also, at my appt. i was given an edd of 4/20. i cant wait to know if this is going to 'stick'. we're almost identically pregnant. :)
becky*
no subject
Date: 2006-08-30 04:18 pm (UTC)You know I want a soccer team worth of kids. My good friend and his new wife are super environmentalist (as am I, but they're even more so - she worked in Paraguay in sustainable development and now does the same thing here) and they only want two kids because they believe in only replacing themselves. In a totally separate conversation, someone was saying how Orthodox Christianity is dying out in the land of its birth (in the Middle East) partially because the Muslims simply have more children than the indiginous Christians. So ever since Geoff got engaged, I've been ribbing him about his "responsibility" to keep us Orthodox from dying out. He says I can make up for his lack of procreation, but I have so many friends that have told me that, I'm going to have to have 20 kids just to replace them all! COME ON PEOPLE, YOU CAN ONLY EXPECT SO MUCH FROM ME! Haha!
OH, so un-PC I am... :)
no subject
Date: 2006-08-30 05:26 pm (UTC)Where do you find all that information about population and whatnot? Sometimes the internet makes me feel stupid :(
no subject
Date: 2006-08-30 06:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-08-31 05:33 am (UTC)i just might share it with my fiance who always says that he can't imagine actually planning a child with the state of the world...overpopulation is his next best excuse.
i think planning a baby or at least mutually trying (or not trying to prevent one) would be so super romantic. its something i want in this lifetime...we'll see, i guess...he's not snipped yet and he's not even talking about it anymore now that we have found the polyurethane condom solution (still yuck....but its all about compromises)
and yeah...i just want to squeeze those babies of yours!!! sooooo freakin' adorable! i love that picture and think i'll go brush my teeth and go to bed to snuggle with my own ;)
no subject
Date: 2006-08-31 11:07 am (UTC)Christ on a cracker if they think twat is the most colourful word in my antipodean repertoire I have news for them!
Did.not.fit.in